T Nation

New Doc = New Program (BW Results)

Well I finally found a new Doc that was fimiliar with Dr Crisler, and Dr Shippens methods close to my home.

At first I was wondering if I made a mistake after I made advance payment for yearly visits, but no need to worry here. After having me do EXTENSIVE BW panel (Labcorp took about 7 vials that day ! ) The Doc delivered as hoped for.

He gave the OK to switch to Test-Cyp (100 mg/wk - 50mg E3D) I was on A-gel. He also OK’d the Armidex, and Amour Thyroid meds. ALSO gave me a scrip for some compounded test cream (10% strength) which he said to use a small amount to compensate for dips and spikes in levels from injections. And of course HCG 250IU EOD. I really like this guy … VERY easy to talk to and work with. I share with him all the info I pick up on this site and others. (He wants to meet DR. KSMAN, DR. KNB, and some noteable others…)

Here is what my BW come back at.
(Keep in mind that I stopped ALL gel and HCG 3 days before BW)

Total Test = 739 (range 350-1030)
Free Test = 81 (range 52-280)
SHBG = 101 (range 20-60)
E2 = 18 ( range 0 -53)
T4(free,direct) = 1.19 (range .61-1.76)
T3 (Free) = 3.2 (range 2.3-4.2)
TSH = 4.9 (range .35-5.5)
DHEA-S = 160 (range 70-218)
IGF-1 = 141 (range 94-252)

Just before I had done the BW I was taking 15mg ( 3 pks) of A-gel, 250IU EOD HCG, 1mg A-dex per week. I know I ran my test levels waaay up, along with E2, which is why I am guessing my SHBG came back high. I figure I need a little more time to stabilize.

For the experts out there … any comments on the #'s.
I am kind of clueless when it comes to T4 and T3 ratios.
Will the Amour clear this up ???
Doc says he wants to see my TSH around 1.0

Thanks for any/all input.

You must respond well to HCG if you’re still at 739 after three days. Looks like you had your E2 in check to me. Heck mine was 1.5 times the range on half your dose of gel and 250IU HCG.

Glad you found a good doc. They are hard to come by.

I’m glad he put you on Armour thyroid, your TSH is sky high! I wonder what your Reverse T3 is?
Your T3,T4 numbers look good but your TSH is unreal high. I guess you’ll find out soon enough if your RT3 is an issue or not.

Lots of bound T to the SHBG, there are herbs that may help to get your SHBG down (unless the new doc has an idea.) I would figure way more E2 with a SHBG that high, but I could be wrong.
I can really only speak for my personal experiences, and those that have been PM’d to me with the express permission of the authors to share in open forum.
Really good news, man!

Forgot to mention his attitude is: Don’t worry about the #'s lets focus on how you feel. ( He told me this after I told him I was concerned that the T-cream added to the program wold post some HIGH “T” #'s for me)

Prior to my most recent BW, my E2 was at 41+, that was when I got agressive with the A-dex. It came back at 18 after 3 days of no T or A-dex. My guess is that my E@ was at near zero just before labs, and my T was much higher.

My cortisol came back at: 17.0

I am wondering if it takes more time for shbg to come down, after the E@ has been corrected ??

Thinking about Nettle or Avena sativa.

Proviron looks tempting…

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I think your SHBG will come down and it’s also just one set of labs. Proviron is decent. If your E2 is in check you’ll notice a kick from it. Some use it as an AI but I can tell you from my experience with it it’s a very weak AI at best.

I’m not sure how well it chews up SHBG because I stopped it about a week before my labs. My labs showed an acceptable number for SHBG so I stopped taking it. They do use it in Europe with Nebido so I’m assuming it’s safe for long term use in small doses. It’s hard to find much info on it though.

I am going to give the proviron a try (25MG a day). I am hoping it will also take care of E2 so I can at least drop the A-dex.

Time will tell…

If that doesn’t work people take 100mg on a regular basis. Some swear by the stuff and for others it seems to do nothing.

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I picked this up from a supply site…

You should be aware that Proviron is also an estrogen antagonist which prevents the aromatization of steroids. Unlike the antiestrogen Nolvadex which only blocks the estrogen receptors (see Nolvadex) Proviron already prevents the aromatizing of steroids. Therefore gynecomastia and increased water retention are successfully blocked.

Alter, I agree with you about it not being that great of anAI. I think it has more of a “Mild” effect as compared to A-dex. I am an A-dex over-responder, and now that switching to shots, I am hoping my E2 overall will not be such a big issue, and possibly controlled by Proviron. I will be checking via B/W every 3 wks to get the doase dialed in.

Just for “hahas” I pulled this stuff back out of my storage closet that now looks like where supplements and other goodies go to die. My E2 is pretty well in check at the moment and let me say this stuff rocks! Don’t take it and go eat at Hooters…

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I will stay away from hooters. Prefer Solid Gold anyway …

What doesage you taking on the proviron ?
Taking it once or twice a day ??

To refresh my memory, aren’t you doing the 100mg T-Cyp E3D (Sub-Q) with 400IU HCG E3D ??

How has it been going ???

I’m just doing the usual start out TRT now.

55mg T cyp every three days
250IU HCG every three days
.5mg of Adex every three days

E2 is still an issue right now but I’ve only been on Adex for a week. It is getting better though but I’m going to need more than 1mg a week. (My first sign it’s clearing up is I’m not riding around in the car with the A/C on when it’s 65 outside.)

As my E2 lowers I notice this in order: 1) night sweats go away 2) I stop feeling hot all the time 3) Minor depression lifts 4) Libido. If I overrun it the joints in my hands hurt and my other joints “crunch” when working out.

You really need to take Proviron twice a day. Once in the morning and once around 6pm. If you only take one it loses it’s kick.