T Nation

New Cycle

I have posted before, and been offered some very helpful advice. Unfortunately, due to numerous circumstances I have not used the gear. I recently got some advice from someone reguarding a cycle for my specific needs. I will try to be as thorough as possible.

I am training as a competetive mma fighter. I also help train others as well to make money so my schedule is filled with training. I am 30, 5’8, walk around at around 165 fight at about 154.9. I have been weight training for several years. My real ambition is to reduce overtraining. You will see from my schedule it is pretty packed. It is tough to eliminate anything. My weight training conditioning usually follows a Westside for Skinny Bastards paradigm. I use standard core lifts, but I also incorperate some strong man work (sand bag, sledge hammer, sled dragging, log carries, kettlebells, and bodyweight excercises for supplemental work. My diet is pretty clean consisting of high protein, low glycemic index carbs, moderate fats, and appropriate post workout meals. I do cheat every now and then but never before any type of competition.

Monday:
Submission Grappling in the early AM
Afternoon Weight training Max effort lower body squat, or deadlift. A unilateral accesory excercsise like lunges, step ups, etc. or dimmels/rdls, ab circuts between sets. I may work my bis and traps depedning on how I feel. Later on I will coach throught the day and maybe spar (boxing) with some of my guys depedning on how I feel. I will finish at 10.

Tuesday
Boxing in the AM (kicks the sh-t out of me). Come home teach/coach. Submission grappling in the evening and I will usually roll with the guys afterwords.

Wedsday
Submission Grappling in early AM. Rest. Hit boxing in the early afternoon. Work/coach throught the day until 10.

Thursday
Muay Thai training…padwork, clinch, knee, etc. Come home nap. Teach and roll with some of the students…usually pretty light.

Friday. Submission Grappling early AM. Weight training PM. Max repetition day…select upper or lower body excercise depending what is still moving, then do related supplemental accessory work. If I am up to it I will spar boxing/muay thai with the students.

Saturday
Muay Thai/MMA training/sparring. This depends on what my trainer decides and which training partners show hope. It can last between 1-2 hours. REST

Sunday:
Teach in the morning. REST Weight Training…Max effort upper body (usually some kind of bench), related supplementals accesories.

WOW! That’s alot. No wonder I overtrain all the time. Keep in mind that not every practice session is balls to the wall and a good portion is spent drilling technique. It would be very hard to eliminate any one of them, to tell the truth because one aspect or another of my overall game would be sacrificed.

Now here is the grocery list. I have not obtained dossage information, and I was hoping that you guys might be able to help with that. It is for 12 weeks:

Anethate
Winny 3x a week
Var 2x a day (20mgs?)
Arimidex 2x a week

Clomid at the end. As I stated before, I want to try to reduce overtaining…I cannot really gain weight. Unless there is a huge (and I mean dramatic) increase in stregnth there is no way I can afford it. I walk around between 160-165 and I am pretty lean. I will have to really be strict to get down to 153.9. I am not sure I can make that if I use. There is a 154-159 class…and a 165 class which I might want to stay out of. At 5’8" some of those guys either come down from 180-190…or just bedwarf me in height.

So am I heading in the right direction? Feedback? Advice?

A few questions. First how do you know that this is the gear that best suits you?
Anethate? you mean enanthate? or acetate?

There are lots of unknowns as far as your cycle. I think EQ and var wouldnt be bad, others might say differntly. I have been told that winny will dry up your synovial fuild in your joints so it may not be a good way to go.

[quote]kickbxer wrote:
A few questions. First how do you know that this is the gear that best suits you?
Anethate? you mean enanthate? or acetate?

There are lots of unknowns as far as your cycle. I think EQ and var wouldnt be bad, others might say differntly. I have been told that winny will dry up your synovial fuild in your joints so it may not be a good way to go.[/quote]

I am refering to Enathate. Sorry about, that. The truth is that I do not know if this is the best cycle for me, that is why I am here. I got these recomendations from a friend of a friend who is apparently very knowledgeable on this subject. I also have done some research on my own…but it is miniscule compared to what people know on here. As far as winstrol making your joints brittle, I heard this too, and voiced my concern. I don’t remember his explanation exactly but it was something to the effect that other gear would counteract those effects (maybe the var). This may not be the best cylce in the world, but I want to know what people will think its effectiveness will be as far as:

-combating overtraining
-increased stregnth with little or no weight gain
-safety
-minimization of side effects

I read enough here to know that no one knows specifically how someone will react to the gear. All I am looking for is an educated specualation on things.

Thanks

Check out halo. I’ve heard you get great strength gains with little to no weight plus it makes you aggro as fuck.

Thanks Johny Chainsaw, but my problem is not agression. Its stregnth and overtraining. I am looking more for opinions and suggestions for this existing cycle I mentioned.

[quote]JohnnyChainsaw wrote:
Check out halo. I’ve heard you get great strength gains with little to no weight plus it makes you aggro as fuck. [/quote]

Thanks JohnyChainsaw (man I just had to say that). I am not really looking to be “aggro.” I am primarily looking to gain stregnth and prevent overtraining. I am really looking for opinions suggestions about the existing cycle I mentioned.

I’m really interested to know more about this as well, because i’m in a similar place. What kind of dosages would be needed to prevent overtraining, increase strength and injury recovery, but limit weight gain?

My suggestions for your listed cycle:

Do you really want to take Test Enanthate? Lots of water retention and bloat. Look at Test Prop, but still keep the arimidex. As for the winny, I don’t like it. Tried it once at 50 mgs/day and it killed my tendons. Not sure if that is what you want as a fighter. Anavar is good for what you want, although 40 mgs/day would do a lot more than 20.

I think test prop(50mg/day), eq(300mg/week), and var(40-60mg/day)are good steroids for you. You’ll have very lean gains and incredible strength gains. the eq/var is pretty popular with athletes as their aerobic capacities are enhanced(i’ve read that eq increases epo) and the var is awesome for strength gains with relatively no weight gain. i’d say no to winny for the aformentioned reasons.

Any other comments? I think I may do the cycle as described. I understand that that var might help combat some the effects of the winny on the joints. I am not sure if I can get equipose.

For those of you who didn’t read thought all the crap that I wrote up there…

Anethate
winny
var
Arimdex
Clomid

Dosages unspecified. If more arguments are presented I am listening.

I would probably go with prop and var. Shorter estered prop will have you holding less water and less weight, var is amazing for athletes.

Considering that you can’t hold water or weight, I would stay away from longer esters. (I.e enanthate)

I agree with most here. I personally like turinabol the most.
Masteron 2nd and I will occasionally use a little prop or eq.

I used to use var but prefer turinabol.
I did actually notice var have a negative effect on endurance

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
I would probably go with prop and var. Shorter estered prop will have you holding less water and less weight, var is amazing for athletes.

Considering that you can’t hold water or weight, I would stay away from longer esters. (I.e enanthate) [/quote]

I am going to investigate the idea of prop further. I was wondering if there might be anything that might be used to help with the brittle joint effects of the winny. I have heard that it is bad for your joints, but is that the case for most people.

Are there any fighters or non-fighters that have used winny successfully without the negative effect on the joints?

MMA Fighter,

with all your training, i don’t think you can afford the risk with Winny. Var and EQ would be the best for athletics (in weight divison), but like it was mentioned already, FQ and enanthate have long half lives, whcih would screw up you’re competition prep. Masteron is a good suggestion, so that and Anavar might be good options.

check out the Newbie thread and serch through it…i posted a lot of drug profiles in it to help ut with research…

You wanted some advice from me so here goes. Keep it simple. Try a cycle of var. 40-60mg per day. See where that takes you. It may be all you need.

If not, then next time try some eq.

I think there is too much over analysing.

I second what P#22 said.

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
You wanted some advice from me so here goes. Keep it simple. Try a cycle of var. 40-60mg per day. See where that takes you. It may be all you need.

If not, then next time try some eq.

I think there is too much over analysing.[/quote]

I don’t disagree that I am probably overanalyzing. I have never even so much as smoked a ciggerette in my life. Walking this path is not easy for me. If I do it, I just want to make sure I am doing it the best way I can.

I know alot of it is seeing how your body responds…but I want to eliminate as little of the “Russian Roulette” aspect. It is my body and my career at stake…so I take this pretty seriously.

As far as an all var cylce…isn’t that inefective or dangerous? I don’t think I can get a hold of mast or eq. I can get a hold of test p. I take it that if I was going to do both of those I would need to use nova or clomid?

Prisoner #22 and everyone here…I am sorry I am probably the biggest pain in the ass on this sight. I just want to be able to say that I have done everything I can do. Sorry for being annoying.

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
You wanted some advice from me so here goes. Keep it simple. Try a cycle of var. 40-60mg per day. See where that takes you. It may be all you need.

If not, then next time try some eq.

I think there is too much over analysing.[/quote]

another vote for a very simple cycle for the first run and for sports. The only nit pick I would have is I like turinabol more than var especially for performance. I also find var shuts me down more. But that is just me and a few guys I know.

You shouldn’t need nolv or clom with this type of thing.

For sports performance, obviously not for bodybuilding, Me and friends have had luck with turinabol like this:
M T W R F S S
10 10 20 20 30 30 off
The next week you can start at 20 and go up to 40. I’ve never gone past 40 but friends have gone up to 60mg in a day. But I taper up and off every week and do this for up to 8 weeks max.
I stress that I am interested in a performance edge though, most of my training coming from the actual sport than lifting and such so a cycle like this gets much criticsm. But keeping the goal in mind I really like this.

Well you will be happy to know that I will be winding my questions down. I think this may be my last one for awhile. Assuming I did test pro, var, arimidex, nova/clomid…are there any proposed dossages for a first time user with my goals for a first time 8-12 week cycle?

I hear you guys about a “var only cycle”. Will the pro put on too much weight? I have ruled out enathate. I can’t get EQ from a doctor so I will have to pass on that for now.

Well, that’s 2 last questions and I guess you guys won’t be hearing from me for awhile. Anyone who has any ideas, I am listening. Thanks for all your help thus far.

the prop should put solid muscle on you without putting on any water weight which should be good for MMA. It will also up your agression. You will gain weight though where var will give you strength and density with very little weight gain. depends what your goals are.

if you are trying to stay in a lower weight or get up to a higher weight it will change what you cycle. prop has also been used by guys trying to cut fat which shouldn’t matter for you since you are likely already very lean.