Its been a while since ive done a cycle. Ive heard good things about Tbol and a Test. The low dosages at the beginning is to test reaction, then increase test once Tbol is done. Not looking for HUGE gains. Mostly burn fat and increase tone with size. I dont need to get much bigger. Lol
Thoughts?
Why starting test low? Just run that shit up to full dose. Or better yet, frontload it.
HCG starting too high. Just run it at 1500/wk.
WTF is âtoneâ? You using a shake weight or some shit? Fix your diet and do the same thing.
Agree, but OP is not on their first blast.
Curious about your frontloading protocolâŠ
Rough numbers via steroid plotter says that roughly 150% week 1, 120% week 2, 100% week 3 is a really stable frontload⊠200% first week looks significantly higher, unless steroid plotter is just not that accurate (probable).
You sincerely recommend 2x weekly dose for first week as frontload?
Lol, it was a quick type, so tone was the first descriptive word that came to mind. Regularly exercise 5-6 days a week. 36 Y.O.
No bloodwork done, not planning to honestly.
The test schedule is based on what I have available. I wanted to start HCG before the olâ lady gets back from holiday in June, just in case my libido drops from the test 
First blast was supertest (test E test C) and Deca⊠12 weeks if I remember.
I can change it up a little with suggestions⊠I guess im mostly worried about loss of sex drive towards the end. Ive heard Tren base may ignite that pretty quick though lol!
Im not new to exercise, routine or diet, but its been a minute since ive had a cycle.
Honestly suprised to not hear 1 thing about the Tbol tho
It was a typo for the mcg, my apologies iU is right⊠so start it a few weeks earlier? The HCG and sarm is new to me, last blast I didnt do much for recovery. It was hard to pick and choose in Afghanistan 
Im also splitting the Test mon/thur split. Why drop the Tbol? Ive had a lot of recommendations as its a mild oral. I do have some Tren base, never used it and cant fimd much on it other than it being a PWO.
When I was cycling and competing, I had access to pretty much everything there was, and tried it all. Speaking for myself, tbol never gave me the godlike feeling of dbol. AAS seemed to be a commonly individual experience though, as I knew many guys who didnât like it at all, and had terrible side-effects. At 50mg per day, I had tremendous results and no side-effects. I never needed more than 250mg per week of long ester Test, or 10mg of Nolva, which I ran concurrently with everything. Usually added 200mg per week of Deca along with the above. Just my 2 cents.
Alright, 3 weeks in and everything is good. Tbol was increased to 50mg, Test is still riding 250mg. I have 3 weeks left of the 50mg Tbol, then Ill bump the Test to 500mg. I am curious about 2 things. 1. Should I run HCG for a couple weeks mid cycle, just to keep the boys ok. 2. I am thinking about running anavar(or Primo) the last 6 weeks of the cycle, thoughts?
A-why are you pyramiding test up?
B-Donât change your plan. Why would you run primo for 6 weeks? Useless.
C-Balls are prob already down
This was not a good plan.
A. I was more worried about body reaction for the beginning. It has been 12 years since my last cycle and first time on Tbol. From what I read Tbol is best if supported by a test, so I kept it at a TRT-ish dosage. Might not have been the best way for maximum gains, but I also got to learn how my body reacts to both.
B. I appreciate the input. I was pointed towards Primo or Var if I was going to finish with something. I am leaning towards Var, just wanted more input.
C. You are correct. I have 0 care about fertility, since I already have crib midgets. This is why I am seeking knowledge. Ive never used HCG, and if its a bad Idea, I wont waste my time.
I have never said that my entire life.
If this is a concern, start with the Test at 500 mg solo, run that for 6-10 weeks, then finish with the addition of the Tbol. I think you will get more out of it with a good amount of Test in your system.
no concern anymore lol⊠No thoughts on ending with Anavar for the last 6 weeks of cycle (itll start 4 weeks after I finish the Tbol)�
Comes down to risk tolerance / goals. I wouldnât do it. Just to much time on orals for my liking. Advanced people do orals for longer stretches than 4-6 weeks, but it isnât for me. Just to much strain on the liver and kidneys for my goals.
As for goals, what are you currently looking like? If you are jacked, Anavar is more so worth it, but then again, what is quickly gained for look goes away quickly. If it is 6 weeks of looking better than with Test alone, but then after another 6 weeks you look the same as if you had done Test alone, is that worth it to you? I am not saying it isnât. Doing a BBing show, or for me the strength benefits if doing a powerlifting meet might be worth it.
The Idea was Tbol+Test for dry gains and strength. Run 500mg Test for size, then Var at the end to try and keep gains and cut more fat. There will be a 4 week period with no orals before the Anavar. PCT is still Nolva. I guess rushing the summer body was the idea. I get 3 months of warm up here, gotta make them count HAHA!
Me too. Minnesota.
For this I believe context is needed. it may make sense if you very developed and quite lean. This means you need sauce or extra sauce to be in a caloric deficit and maintain gains while losing fat. The Anavar helps here. It also helps with motivation as you wonât look as shitty while cutting.
Otherwise, I believe for most people that using more gear during cutting phases doesnât make sense. People competing in strength and physique sport is an exception to âmost peopleâ, given it isnât against the rules.
I say this because I believe AAS are best used to build tissue. Not very much is needed to maintain if the diet is good, the training is good, and the person isnât some dude that is basically a mass monster. The results of 500 mg/wk Test and 50 mg ED of Anavar vs 250 mg of Test in a caloric deficit isnât very large. The difference between the two in a bulk is more significant.
Some of this is personal philosophy about PED use. I aim to minimize use while getting close to the results of using more. Best results (for strength and mass) involve using a lot at all times. Not a trade off I will make.
Right now I am cutting, and using 160 mg/wk of Test E. I went from about 205 and I am at 190 ish now. Iâll probably cut to 185, then start a mini blast.
Letâs say I used more to cut. Say 400 mg/wk Test while cutting. It has been about 12 weeks so far (but need a total of about 16 weeks to reach the leanness goal). Lets say at the end, I am just as lean at 190 lbs as I will be with the lower dose at 185 lbs (I think that is fairly realistic, maybe a tad optimistic). I kept 5 lbs extra muscle by using 400 mg/wk vs 160 mg/wk over 16 weeks.
Now lets look at the approach I am taking. From a depleted and lean state, how long do you think it would take me to be to be 190 lbs with hardly any fat gain with 400 mg/wk of Test starting after the 16 week cut (starting at 185)? I figure it is 4-6 weeks.
I get that you are cycling, not blast and cruise like me (started out with TRT). It is easier to get impatient on a cycle, and that is something you have to weigh out for yourself.
Sorry kinda a rant.
no, I appreciate the rant. Its the most feedback ive gotten. Sounds like it wouldnt hurt to use at that stage, but I should weigh if it is worth the little gain I would more than likely get from it. I just want to shed the extra fat. maybe something like Helios or Clen would be a better option?
If you are not worried about fertility, you could potentially extend the cycle a bit. Kinda do a blast cruise blast then PCT. I donât think your odds of recovery would be much worse especially if you use some HCG. If I went down this path, Iâd also do a longer PCT with the Nolva. I wouldnât use as much at the start (many use 40 mg/day for 2 weeks). I would use like 20 mg/day for 4 weeks, then 10 mg/day for 4, then maybe 10 mg EOD for 2. Longer PCTs seem to work better from what Iâve seen anecdotally (I know one dude who recovered from almost 2 grams a week including 600 mg/wk Tren for 18 months. He PCTâd for 6 months). Not suggesting that is required here though haha.
I donât know what Helios is, but for me Clen isnât worth it. It is a stimulant (but doesnât seem to help focus much), and it only really burns a bit of extra calories. We are talking like 50-100 kcal a day. It also increases BP and heart rate (heart rate more so I believe). It just seems fairly taxing on the heart for what it does for you. I think you could get the same results with 10-15 minutes of walking.
I just hope I donât come across as telling you what to do. These are my ramblings haha.
Right now I am using low dose semaglutide for the cut. It does have some potential side effects. I believe those are overblown, mostly because of a bias that occurs because it is extremely popular and new (name brand is Ozempic / Wegovy). Celebrities are taking it, house moms, guys looking to get jacked⊠It has been covered much more than something like clen. The potential side effects are covered more as well. The thing is it is approved by the FDA for losing weight. Lots and lots of drugs have been submitted for this purpose. Very few make it. The FDA has to weigh out risk to benefit. The fact that they approved it for weight loss to me says it is fairly safe (compared to say a cancer drug, which they would allow to have more negatives).
I use it in the lowest dose that keeps me losing weight at the rate I am aiming for. Faster isnât better in this case (more muscle with the fat). If 0.25 mg/wk allows you to lose an average of 1-2 lbs a week, that is better than a higher dose with faster loss. You also probably wonât have as much rebound off of it.
I know nothing about Helios.
But I really liked Clenbuterol. In fact it was a key component to getting rid of the last bit of fat to look a little sharper and more striations on stage. I didnât use it until 4 weeks out from a show, and would never recommend using it if you didnât have a show.
You should be able to diet down to below 8% body fat without any pharmaceutical fat burners. Sure, it is gonna hurt to get that low.
I appreciate you adding context. Itâs tough to give advice if we donât have context, and the OP will benefit from us giving context on where we are coming from.
You like clen, for me I said it isnât worth it, but we donât disagree. The context of you stepping on stage, and me not, gives perspective.
