T Nation

New Bloodwork on 40mg, E3D (80mg Total/Week)

T Replacement
#1

Some of you know i’ve tried numerous protocols, and never feeling much. My last “experiment” was trying to overload my test dosage in order to try to feel SOMETHING. It was like 400mg test per week. Nothing.

SO i decided maybe i need to go low dose. I have been on appx. 40mg test twice a week (total 80 mg test per week).

SHBG 22 (10-50)
FT 158 (46-224)
E2 28 (<29)
TT 672 (250-827)

Well, i can’t say i feel much different from higher doses, more frequent shots, less frequent shots, or anything.

Anyone think i should go even lower dose? My E2 is still higher range, but is low if you figure out the ratio thing.

Why do some men not feel a thing from TRT? It’s so odd.

#2

Your numbers look a lot like mine at that dose. And your ratio of Total T to Estradiol is almost exactly the same.

On roughly the same dosage my numbers were as follows(Labcorp so the FreeT number is in different units I guess):

TT = 672
FT = 23 (range was 6.8 - 21.5)
SHBG = 30
Estradio = 28.4

I benefited by going down to 50-60 a week.

I’d recommend skipping a dose or two and see if you can feel something when your T heads lower. I noticed a couple of things as my T headed down to what a man normally produces. More oily skin, a few face pimples, and much increased libido.

lab snip
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#3

Thanks for the feedback. . It’s libido that i’m looking for mainly. I have very little, if any.

Why do you think your libido came back when you dropped dose? Lowered e2?

#4

There is a guy on Youtube named Vigorous Steve who claims that you need a ratio of between 13-18(labcorp numbers) to have good libido.

vigorous steve
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I noticed that on any protocol I’ve been on my ratio of TT to E2 is always higher than 18. Not by a lot but always higher. For example, I’ve had my TT up to 2113 but my E2 was 106 for a ratio of 19.9. Another example, a TT 1028 and an E2 of 51 for a ratio of 20.1.

Be curious if you could go back through your labs and see if you ever had a ratio between 13-18.

#5

Maybe it’s your dopamine receptors, any addiction, meth, weed, porn, alcohol?

#6

I want to say i did have a better ratio at times, but it was generally on less frequent protocols, like weeklly or even once every other week shots. So that ratio was just a snap shot that given day of blood work, and didn’t last.

#7

Negative.

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#8

I’m doubtful if that matters. My wife is a porn addict and she’ll watch it up to 5-6 times a day. She doesn’t drink during her 4 day work week but she drinks every single night she’s off of work. Hasn’t hurt her libido.

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#9

I’ve written this before, so I’ll give you the Readers Digest version. I feel no different on 500, 200, 120. I’ve done weekly, daily, e3.5d. Only when I dipped lower to 70/w did it become noticeable.

#10

We are all different, thanks for the reply man

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#11

Interesting. Did you split it twice a week?

#12

I don’t know but I have some theories. I’ve found my E2 to be somewhat “sticky” going down. My ratio seems to improve if TT goes lower(E2 does as well but not linearly I don’t think) but I haven’t done enough testing to prove this.

Also there was a guy who used to post here name Prisoner who claimed that your HPTA starts kicking in at low doses of exogenous T. If that’s true than maybe I’m getting some of that intratesticular conversion to E2 that is also improving my ratio.

Here is a thread he wrote about tapering but it has, in my mind, some relevance for us.

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#13

Whats ur prolactin

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#14

That was gonna be my question as well

Edit: referring to prolactin

#15

That was 10mg daily. Otherwise I never notice much change from one protocol to another.

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#16

I can’t recall but it was normal.

#17

Check this post maybe you can ask this gentleman how is he doing today on this protocol

#18

Same boat here. Going to daily injections was actually worse for me because my dose was always too high and I was always supraphysiological.

roscoe
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Here’s a standard 100mg protocol once a week. You go supra on T and E the first couple of days and then the T starts coming down. Someone here posted a graph that shows that E remains elevated. So assuming there is any validity to the ratio theory, you’d have a good ratio maybe for a day or two at most as your T comes down. Then you take your weekly shot and everything is worse again.

In my case, the signs were there but I just didn’t connect the dots. For example, when I was on pellets, the clinic would re-insert the pellets and then give me what they called a booster shot and would tell me “so you can have a good time this weekend”. But I never did. It was only until I realized that I was feeling better before my shot not after that I think I figured things out. Now my libido is tremendously better but it’s not where I totally want it. I want it back at that stage where I would occasionally text the wife, “hey can you call out sick and come home”.

#19

You make sense to me. On weekly shots, I always felt best right before my next shot. I assumed it was a lower testosterone amount, coupled with a slightly elevated e2.

So what’s the best way to replicate this? I could leave things alone, and just try to increase e2 somehow with dhea or something i suppose.

OR, just lower it a bit more, and hope my e2 “sticks” a little like you mentioned. I’m guessing you mean doesn’t lower as it generally dose, along with test, on higher doses?

#20

Yep that’s what I meant by “sticky”. I don’t have a ton of money to spend on tests and haven’t tested nearly enough to prove this to myself much less advise others, but I did see a test where I had a 438 TT and 38 E2 which would actually be a ratio below the ideal 13-18 ratio claimed. One of the reasons I think TRT is tough for people like us.

Me personally, I’ve decided not to add any other compounds like DHEA because I want to see what T does by itself. If I were you, I’d skip a dose or two and keep a journal of how you’re feeling on the following “low” days. Hopefully you notice something like I did. Even if you don’t feel anything right away, I’d restart at 20mg every 2 or 3 days. That’s what I do…sometimes every two days and sometimes every 3 and so I’m injecting 50-60mg a week for the last couple of months. Like I said, I’m not 100 percent there. Anyone who has had libido and then lost it knows what really, really wanting it is like. I haven’t yet gotten to that stage of bouncing off the walls, “honey, come home” stage but it is so much, much better than it was.

And I don’t think anyone in our situation(high doses don’t do a thing to help) has anything to lose. At 50-60mg a week you’re no worse than the average guy not on TRT and can afford to give it a good 12-16 week run. If it doesn’t work at least you know you’ve eliminated a potential solution that almost nobody ever recommends.

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