T Nation

New Bill to Regulate Supplement Industry

[quote]stuntmonkeys wrote:
X, the tylenol regulation I’m speaking of is not that you need a prescription to get it. It’s that the FDA knows what’s in it, has evidence of it’s safety (just how safe is something we can discuss), and has the ability to recall it and discontinue distribution. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that our supps would require a prescription.

Also, maybe I am naive, but perhaps so are you cynical. Can you explain how it’s about money? Is it money for the gov’t in your opinion? Or money for some lobby that wants to get it’s hands in the supp industry’s pockets? Just to be clear, I’m not denigrating your argument. I’m trying to learn more.[/quote]

If there was a supplement that did what tylenol does to the liver, it would be recalled, banned, and never to be spoken of again.

So, can I sum up your arguments by saying that the FDA isn’t very good at regulating drugs, so we shouldn’t let them regulate supps either?

Stuntmonkeys why is this such a surprise to you. Look at most high ups in the FDA and most gov’t regulatory bodies for that matter, most were employed at some point in time by the industry they are now expected to regulate. This doesn’t happen by chance…

At the end of the day I think most people just need to educate themselves on the system that decides how they can live their lives. Most people out there are very naive and believe these agencies are impartial and are just looking out for the good of the people. Sadly I don’t believe that to be the case…

Yeah, I recently read a book on this very topic called Selling Sickness:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBMDW2AdbkwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Selling+SIckness&source=bl&ots=gOyChU2ZXi&sig=ZHuVsJcxQErzO407xuaAisOOj78&hl=en&ei=tKNwS4WCCMmXtgeiueiGCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The pharmaceutical companies definitely have too much influence over what gets approved through the FDA. However, I think supplements are small potatoes compared to the money pharmaceutical companies make. I wonder if they even give a crap about supplements.

I believe SOME EAS products already go through a “type” of FDA approval. Meaning each batch they make gets tested before selling. NOT saying they deal with FDA directly but I forget who they do the testing through.

Stuntmonkey -

Not trying to beat to death what has already been said about acetaminophen but often prescription (regulated) Tylenol is often combined with some sort of other controlled analgesic and or a stimulant. Such as codeine-acetaminophen (Tylenol 4) and codeine-acetaminophen-caffeine (Tylenol 1/2/3).

Does this mean I have to drive to Canada for both good strip clubs and now for my whey?

Hold on there Sam, Canada has this same type of bill trying to get passed. I think it’s been about 3 years since it’s first relieve and nothing has happened yet. Bill C-51 it is called.

http://www.acubalance.ca/content/bill-c51-taking-away-your-right-natural-health-products-canada

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Does this mean I have to drive to Canada for both good strip clubs and now for my whey?[/quote]
Sundowner. Best strip club, period. Niagara, ON in da’ house!

[quote]Digity wrote:
Yeah, I recently read a book on this very topic called Selling Sickness:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBMDW2AdbkwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Selling+SIckness&source=bl&ots=gOyChU2ZXi&sig=ZHuVsJcxQErzO407xuaAisOOj78&hl=en&ei=tKNwS4WCCMmXtgeiueiGCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The pharmaceutical companies definitely have too much influence over what gets approved through the FDA. However, I think supplements are small potatoes compared to the money pharmaceutical companies make. I wonder if they even give a crap about supplements.

[/quote]

??? Of course they “give a crap”. More people everyday learn what simple things like Vit-D and Fish Oil can do and say to their Doctor they’d rather try them than a prescription drug - that’s a direct attack on Pharma sales. And even worse (for Pharma ), it’s also a direct attack on their entire market ; the more the the population learns that these things work and become healthier, the less they need Pharma products.
You can measure Pharma’s awareness and concern over how well supps work, and how much it matter’s to their pocket’s, by the fact that this bill is happening…it’s sure not the Athlete’s lobby trying to push it through.

[quote]swivel wrote:

[quote]Digity wrote:
Yeah, I recently read a book on this very topic called Selling Sickness:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBMDW2AdbkwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Selling+SIckness&source=bl&ots=gOyChU2ZXi&sig=ZHuVsJcxQErzO407xuaAisOOj78&hl=en&ei=tKNwS4WCCMmXtgeiueiGCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The pharmaceutical companies definitely have too much influence over what gets approved through the FDA. However, I think supplements are small potatoes compared to the money pharmaceutical companies make. I wonder if they even give a crap about supplements.

[/quote]

??? Of course they “give a crap”. More people everyday learn what simple things like Vit-D and Fish Oil can do and say to their Doctor they’d rather try them than a prescription drug - that’s a direct attack on Pharma sales. And even worse (for Pharma ), it’s also a direct attack on their entire market ; the more the the population learns that these things work and become healthier, the less they need Pharma products.
You can measure Pharma’s awareness and concern over how well supps work, and how much it matter’s to their pocket’s, by the fact that this bill is happening…it’s sure not the Athlete’s lobby trying to push it through.

[/quote]

Well said. Supplements that actually work scare the shit out of people whose bottom line depends on “dependency”.

That may also be why marijuana will never be legal in this political climate. A plant that reduces anxiety without side effects other than “being high” could crush anxiety meds.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]swivel wrote:

[quote]Digity wrote:
Yeah, I recently read a book on this very topic called Selling Sickness:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBMDW2AdbkwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Selling+SIckness&source=bl&ots=gOyChU2ZXi&sig=ZHuVsJcxQErzO407xuaAisOOj78&hl=en&ei=tKNwS4WCCMmXtgeiueiGCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The pharmaceutical companies definitely have too much influence over what gets approved through the FDA. However, I think supplements are small potatoes compared to the money pharmaceutical companies make. I wonder if they even give a crap about supplements.

[/quote]

??? Of course they “give a crap”. More people everyday learn what simple things like Vit-D and Fish Oil can do and say to their Doctor they’d rather try them than a prescription drug - that’s a direct attack on Pharma sales. And even worse (for Pharma ), it’s also a direct attack on their entire market ; the more the the population learns that these things work and become healthier, the less they need Pharma products.
You can measure Pharma’s awareness and concern over how well supps work, and how much it matter’s to their pocket’s, by the fact that this bill is happening…it’s sure not the Athlete’s lobby trying to push it through.

[/quote]

Well said. Supplements that actually work scare the shit out of people whose bottom line depends on “dependency”.

That may also be why marijuana will never be legal in this political climate. A plant that reduces anxiety without side effects other than “being high” could crush anxiety meds.
[/quote]

X, no side effects? I’ve trained a heart doctor who talked about pot smokers whose arteries were awful because of smoking the stuff. Of course, it could be other factors as well. Just curious if you have other info.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]swivel wrote:

[quote]Digity wrote:
Yeah, I recently read a book on this very topic called Selling Sickness:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBMDW2AdbkwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Selling+SIckness&source=bl&ots=gOyChU2ZXi&sig=ZHuVsJcxQErzO407xuaAisOOj78&hl=en&ei=tKNwS4WCCMmXtgeiueiGCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The pharmaceutical companies definitely have too much influence over what gets approved through the FDA. However, I think supplements are small potatoes compared to the money pharmaceutical companies make. I wonder if they even give a crap about supplements.

[/quote]

??? Of course they “give a crap”. More people everyday learn what simple things like Vit-D and Fish Oil can do and say to their Doctor they’d rather try them than a prescription drug - that’s a direct attack on Pharma sales. And even worse (for Pharma ), it’s also a direct attack on their entire market ; the more the the population learns that these things work and become healthier, the less they need Pharma products.
You can measure Pharma’s awareness and concern over how well supps work, and how much it matter’s to their pocket’s, by the fact that this bill is happening…it’s sure not the Athlete’s lobby trying to push it through.

[/quote]

Well said. Supplements that actually work scare the shit out of people whose bottom line depends on “dependency”.

That may also be why marijuana will never be legal in this political climate. A plant that reduces anxiety without side effects other than “being high” could crush anxiety meds.
[/quote]

X, no side effects? I’ve trained a heart doctor who talked about pot smokers whose arteries were awful because of smoking the stuff. Of course, it could be other factors as well. Just curious if you have other info.[/quote]

It COULD be other factors? Yeah, I would check diet and cigarette smoke first.

While some studies have shown some correlation between heart disease and marijuana, most of the research is based on the fact that the heart rate increases for the first hour after smoking…which, according to Murray Mittleman, an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School and Harvard School of Public Health, means [quote]“It causes the heart rate to increase by about 40 beats a minute,” he says. “Blood pressure increases then abruptly falls when the person stands up. This could precipitate a heart attack.”[/quote]

Mind you, he is speaking of sedentary people and what is called “orthostatic hypotension”…something most weight lifters experience to some degree due to added muscle mass in the lower extremities (HINT…that means lifting weights puts you at risk as well). He also believes:

Gee, imagine that…NOTHING you do is without any risk at all.

Didn’t you already know this?

In other words, if you already have heart disease, smoking ANYTHING is not good for you.

Gee, yet another thing that could possibly be remedied by legalizing it…the production of NON-smoking methods of delivery.

SMOKING is the issue here and people seem to overlook this.

I would also rather not derail this whole thread so start a new one if you want to go into more detail.

Oh, and the average anti-anxiety med has a long list of side effects from impotence and loss of libido to uncontrollable weight gain. Some even induce suicidal behavior especially if not tapered off of them correctly.

Oh, don’t get me wrong, I think people are overly medicated on things that aren’t good for them, just curious about the no side-effects part. :wink:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]swivel wrote:

[quote]Digity wrote:
Yeah, I recently read a book on this very topic called Selling Sickness:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBMDW2AdbkwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Selling+SIckness&source=bl&ots=gOyChU2ZXi&sig=ZHuVsJcxQErzO407xuaAisOOj78&hl=en&ei=tKNwS4WCCMmXtgeiueiGCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The pharmaceutical companies definitely have too much influence over what gets approved through the FDA. However, I think supplements are small potatoes compared to the money pharmaceutical companies make. I wonder if they even give a crap about supplements.

[/quote]

??? Of course they “give a crap”. More people everyday learn what simple things like Vit-D and Fish Oil can do and say to their Doctor they’d rather try them than a prescription drug - that’s a direct attack on Pharma sales. And even worse (for Pharma ), it’s also a direct attack on their entire market ; the more the the population learns that these things work and become healthier, the less they need Pharma products.
You can measure Pharma’s awareness and concern over how well supps work, and how much it matter’s to their pocket’s, by the fact that this bill is happening…it’s sure not the Athlete’s lobby trying to push it through.

[/quote]

Well said. Supplements that actually work scare the shit out of people whose bottom line depends on “dependency”.

That may also be why marijuana will never be legal in this political climate. A plant that reduces anxiety without side effects other than “being high” could crush anxiety meds.
[/quote]

X, no side effects? I’ve trained a heart doctor who talked about pot smokers whose arteries were awful because of smoking the stuff. Of course, it could be other factors as well. Just curious if you have other info.[/quote]

It COULD be other factors? Yeah, I would check diet and cigarette smoke first.

While some studies have shown some correlation between heart disease and marijuana, most of the research is based on the fact that the heart rate increases for the first hour after smoking…which, according to Murray Mittleman, an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School and Harvard School of Public Health, means [quote]“It causes the heart rate to increase by about 40 beats a minute,” he says. “Blood pressure increases then abruptly falls when the person stands up. This could precipitate a heart attack.”[/quote]

Mind you, he is speaking of sedentary people and what is called “orthostatic hypotension”…something most weight lifters experience to some degree due to added muscle mass in the lower extremities (HINT…that means lifting weights puts you at risk as well). He also believes:

Gee, imagine that…NOTHING you do is without any risk at all.

Didn’t you already know this?

In other words, if you already have heart disease, smoking ANYTHING is not good for you.

Gee, yet another thing that could possibly be remedied by legalizing it…the production of NON-smoking methods of delivery.

SMOKING is the issue here and people seem to overlook this.

I would also rather not derail this whole thread so start a new one if you want to go into more detail.[/quote]

Is this a back handed endorsement for Post W/O ‘brownies’?

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Is this a back handed endorsement for Post W/O ‘brownies’?[/quote]

Only if you have a panic attack after working out would you need those, and in that case I might have to question your training methods. But on the subject of the substance itself, I bet you can find something that is worse for you in just about anyone’s medicine cabinet.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]swivel wrote:

[quote]Digity wrote:
Yeah, I recently read a book on this very topic called Selling Sickness:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBMDW2AdbkwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Selling+SIckness&source=bl&ots=gOyChU2ZXi&sig=ZHuVsJcxQErzO407xuaAisOOj78&hl=en&ei=tKNwS4WCCMmXtgeiueiGCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The pharmaceutical companies definitely have too much influence over what gets approved through the FDA. However, I think supplements are small potatoes compared to the money pharmaceutical companies make. I wonder if they even give a crap about supplements.

[/quote]

??? Of course they “give a crap”. More people everyday learn what simple things like Vit-D and Fish Oil can do and say to their Doctor they’d rather try them than a prescription drug - that’s a direct attack on Pharma sales. And even worse (for Pharma ), it’s also a direct attack on their entire market ; the more the the population learns that these things work and become healthier, the less they need Pharma products.
You can measure Pharma’s awareness and concern over how well supps work, and how much it matter’s to their pocket’s, by the fact that this bill is happening…it’s sure not the Athlete’s lobby trying to push it through.

[/quote]

Well said. Supplements that actually work scare the shit out of people whose bottom line depends on “dependency”.

That may also be why marijuana will never be legal in this political climate. A plant that reduces anxiety without side effects other than “being high” could crush anxiety meds.
[/quote]

Okay, as someone who’s struggled with anxiety most of my life, I can tell you smoking pot wasn’t exactly the best idea for solving my anxiety problems. Trying to solve your anxiety problems with pot isn’t much better than shoving a pill down your throat.

What I did learn was a good diet and lots of exercise does wonders for your anxiety. Fortunately for the Pharm companies most people don’t like to eat clean and exercise.

If you have anxiety problems don’t look to smoking pot. Sorry man, but that’s just bad advice. People with anxiety problems need to work on improving their self-esteem and lives in general. Don’t look for band-aid solutions. I’ve suffered with anxiety for over 10 years and have recently started to really overcome it and I didn’t need pot or any other drug to do it.

[quote]Digity wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]swivel wrote:

[quote]Digity wrote:
Yeah, I recently read a book on this very topic called Selling Sickness:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBMDW2AdbkwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Selling+SIckness&source=bl&ots=gOyChU2ZXi&sig=ZHuVsJcxQErzO407xuaAisOOj78&hl=en&ei=tKNwS4WCCMmXtgeiueiGCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The pharmaceutical companies definitely have too much influence over what gets approved through the FDA. However, I think supplements are small potatoes compared to the money pharmaceutical companies make. I wonder if they even give a crap about supplements.

[/quote]

??? Of course they “give a crap”. More people everyday learn what simple things like Vit-D and Fish Oil can do and say to their Doctor they’d rather try them than a prescription drug - that’s a direct attack on Pharma sales. And even worse (for Pharma ), it’s also a direct attack on their entire market ; the more the the population learns that these things work and become healthier, the less they need Pharma products.
You can measure Pharma’s awareness and concern over how well supps work, and how much it matter’s to their pocket’s, by the fact that this bill is happening…it’s sure not the Athlete’s lobby trying to push it through.

[/quote]

Well said. Supplements that actually work scare the shit out of people whose bottom line depends on “dependency”.

That may also be why marijuana will never be legal in this political climate. A plant that reduces anxiety without side effects other than “being high” could crush anxiety meds.
[/quote]

Okay, as someone who’s struggled with anxiety most of my life, I can tell you smoking pot wasn’t exactly the best idea for solving my anxiety problems. Trying to solve your anxiety problems with pot isn’t much better than shoving a pill down your throat.

What I did learn was a good diet and lots of exercise does wonders for your anxiety. Fortunately for the Pharm companies most people don’t like to eat clean and exercise.

If you have anxiety problems don’t look to smoking pot. Sorry man, but that’s just bad advice. People with anxiety problems need to work on improving their self-esteem and lives in general. Don’t look for band-aid solutions. I’ve suffered with anxiety for over 10 years and have recently started to really overcome it and I didn’t need pot or any other drug to do it.[/quote]

You posted all of this because you thought someone was trying to treat all cases of anxiety with marijuana?

THAT is what you got from this discussion?

I miss the old days of Cy Wilson…and people debating and discussing topics on a level that didn’t need constant explanations of concepts just so everyone can stay on the same page.

No, clearly your level of anxiety and your personal experiences speak for all people.

[/thread]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Digity wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]swivel wrote:

[quote]Digity wrote:
Yeah, I recently read a book on this very topic called Selling Sickness:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBMDW2AdbkwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Selling+SIckness&source=bl&ots=gOyChU2ZXi&sig=ZHuVsJcxQErzO407xuaAisOOj78&hl=en&ei=tKNwS4WCCMmXtgeiueiGCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The pharmaceutical companies definitely have too much influence over what gets approved through the FDA. However, I think supplements are small potatoes compared to the money pharmaceutical companies make. I wonder if they even give a crap about supplements.

[/quote]

??? Of course they “give a crap”. More people everyday learn what simple things like Vit-D and Fish Oil can do and say to their Doctor they’d rather try them than a prescription drug - that’s a direct attack on Pharma sales. And even worse (for Pharma ), it’s also a direct attack on their entire market ; the more the the population learns that these things work and become healthier, the less they need Pharma products.
You can measure Pharma’s awareness and concern over how well supps work, and how much it matter’s to their pocket’s, by the fact that this bill is happening…it’s sure not the Athlete’s lobby trying to push it through.

[/quote]

Well said. Supplements that actually work scare the shit out of people whose bottom line depends on “dependency”.

That may also be why marijuana will never be legal in this political climate. A plant that reduces anxiety without side effects other than “being high” could crush anxiety meds.
[/quote]

Okay, as someone who’s struggled with anxiety most of my life, I can tell you smoking pot wasn’t exactly the best idea for solving my anxiety problems. Trying to solve your anxiety problems with pot isn’t much better than shoving a pill down your throat.

What I did learn was a good diet and lots of exercise does wonders for your anxiety. Fortunately for the Pharm companies most people don’t like to eat clean and exercise.

If you have anxiety problems don’t look to smoking pot. Sorry man, but that’s just bad advice. People with anxiety problems need to work on improving their self-esteem and lives in general. Don’t look for band-aid solutions. I’ve suffered with anxiety for over 10 years and have recently started to really overcome it and I didn’t need pot or any other drug to do it.[/quote]

You posted all of this because you thought someone was trying to treat all cases of anxiety with marijuana?

THAT is what you got from this discussion?

I miss the old days of Cy Wilson…and people debating and discussing topics on a level that didn’t need constant explanations of concepts just so everyone can stay on the same page.

No, clearly your level of anxiety and your personal experiences speak for all people.

[/thread][/quote]

Are you incapable of speaking to people in a non-condescending way?

In the long run, any form of substance abuse, including marijuana, isn’t going to solve anxiety problems for anyone. It’s all together a bad idea.

Let me pose a question: Is there any meaningful way to fight this? I really don’t like the idea of basic supplements being taken off the market.