T Nation

New Antagonistic Workout- Advice

Let me begin this post by saying I really appreciate all the advice and help on this workout. Main goal is size, secondary strength. I eat 1.5g/lb protein and all the rest. Just wanted to know if there was any pointers to my workout from here.

Monday: Chest/Biceps

A1) BB Flat Bench Press: 235, 4x4; 195x8 (max)
B1) DB Incline Press: 80s 4x8
C1) DB Bicep Curls: 45s 12,10,8
C2) HS Incline Chest Press: 140 3x10
D1) DB Preacher Curls: 30s 3x10
D2) HS Iso-Lateral Wide Chest: 3x10
E1) Hammer Curls: 30s 3x10

Tuesday: Lower Back / Legs

A1) SLDL: 275, 4x12
B1) Leg Press: 400, 4x15
C1) Reverse Lunges: 95, 3x20
Abs

Wednesday: OFF

Thursday: Back / Triceps

A1) Pull-ups: 45, 4x8
B1) Cable Rows: 185, 4x10
C1) CG Bench Press: 165, 4x10
D1) Iso-Lateral High Row Machine 3x10
D2) Dips 3 x max (usually 20)

Friday: Shoulders / Calves

A1) Military Press 110, 4x10
A2) Upright Row 90, 3x10
A3) Fly machine 3x10
A4) Reverse DB Fly 3x10

Calf work

Saturday: OFF
Sunday: OFF

Youre trying to fit into those skinny jeans aren’t you?

Seriously that’s one of the most pathetic leg days ever.

Are you limiting yourself to only using those weights? Have you read the ramping thread? What happens on the days where you feel good and could up the weight?

where is the squat? Deadlift? Despite what you may think those to exercises will get you size.
I agree with Bonez as well. Your leg day is weak and IMO is the most important lifting session there is

7 exercises for chest/biceps, and 3 for legs. hmmmm…

haha thanks for the input guys. to be honest my legs are by far the most developed part of my body, so i’m not concerned with bringing them up at all (i’d be happy if they didn’t get much bigger). would it be that deterimental to overall growth if i were to keep it like this?

thanks again

Pictures of your developed legs?

Leg work releases GH and Testosterone, both of which help you grow.

[quote]jzl1388 wrote:
haha thanks for the input guys. to be honest my legs are by far the most developed part of my body, so i’m not concerned with bringing them up at all (i’d be happy if they didn’t get much bigger). would it be that deterimental to overall growth if i were to keep it like this?

thanks again[/quote]

What? 55 sets for your upper body and 11 + “calf work” for your lower body?

Give yourself an uppercut.

[quote]stockzy wrote:
jzl1388 wrote:
haha thanks for the input guys. to be honest my legs are by far the most developed part of my body, so i’m not concerned with bringing them up at all (i’d be happy if they didn’t get much bigger). would it be that deterimental to overall growth if i were to keep it like this?

thanks again

What? 55 sets for your upper body and 11 + “calf work” for your lower body?

Give yourself an uppercut.[/quote]

Tom Platz over here is all about balance

edit

I just don’e think its particularly ideal for someone to have legs that are dramatically bigger than their upper bodies. Jeans don’t fit right (not skinny ones)… I wouldn’t say I’m small either, 5’8 180, 12%bf. Ideally I’d gain more on my arms and delts than on my back and legs. what’s wrong with that?

don’t worry. i would still do more leg work because the hormonal stimulation will help you develop the rest of your body. besides i think the standard for upper/lower body symmetry is skewed and most people actually have way under-developed wheels.

wait, hold on…doesn’t antagonistic mean opposing muscles??? Should your new split be more like -->

chest/back
hams/quads
biceps/triceps
shoulders/abs

[quote]Dule wrote:
wait, hold on…doesn’t antagonistic mean opposing muscles??? Should your new split be more like -->

chest/back
hams/quads
biceps/triceps
shoulders/abs

[/quote]

Exactly what i was thinking… This is NOT an antagonistic workout at all.

[quote]Dule wrote:
wait, hold on…doesn’t antagonistic mean opposing muscles??? Should your new split be more like -->

chest/back
hams/quads
biceps/triceps
shoulders/abs

[/quote]

Also - just to add… i do antagonistic sessions periodically and they look like this:

Bi/Tri
Back/Chest
Hams/Quads
Delts/Lats

Before ripping apart his schedule because you feel you’re superior to him because he’s asking for advice you should probably look at what muscles are being used in his workouts.

Bench Press uses chest and triceps and in the same day he works his biceps. Biceps pull, triceps push, thus making them antagonistic.

His back and tricep day is the exact same thing.

If you’re not worried about your legs, then keep them in the same day and don’t split up ie. Your calve exercise should be on the same day as your hamstrings/quads.

Work on cardio/running that should thin out your legs a bit and you can determine whether or not “working” on them will be beneficial to you. I’m at a point right now where my legs are still big even after losing fat and I’ve just incorporated leg exercises in my schedule as I’ve been having my cardio doing that for me.

I’d give you more advice on your schedule but I don’t have the time right now. Good luck and hopefully some more people can shed some light on your training.

I’ll give you an idea on my schedule.

Monday - Chest/Biceps
Tuesday - Shoulders/Legs
Wednesday - Back/Triceps
Thursday - Break
Friday - Chest/Back/Shoulders
Saturday - Tricep/Bicep Superset
Sunday - Break

I’m doing full body twice a week. Abs I do every other day and my cardio is twice a week. This is nothing compared to competitive training but I like hard work so I’ve put myself up to the challenge and of course warming up properly even AFTER chest/back for your biceps and tricep is very important so you get the right blood flow to those areas of the body.

I don’t want to work on my legs more than I’ve set out to do right now as I will be snowboarding and skiing again soon. As well as I don’t have a squat rack at home so I’d rather not die.

hope this helps, cheers

[quote]maplewalnut wrote:
Before ripping apart his schedule because you feel you’re superior to him because he’s asking for advice you should probably look at what muscles are being used in his workouts.

Bench Press uses chest and triceps and in the same day he works his biceps. Biceps pull, triceps push, thus making them antagonistic.

His back and tricep day is the exact same thing.
[/quote]
Yea… you seem to be confused as to what is what.

Firstly, if someone posts their program for analysis then it should be expected for it to be broken down in order to do that.
If i were to attempt to analyse a program for a client without breaking it down i would not be able to feed myself for long.

Now… antagonistic pairings. this is NOT a vague or subjective matter… and has nothing to do with the position of the load (ie. away from the body with a chest press and toward the body with a curl) but it is the two muscles surrounding a joint.

Two muscle groups that have directly opposing actions.

The pectoralis Major and the Bicep Brachii are NOT antagonistic muscles… not in any sense.

Yes, the Tricep and Bicep Brachii ARE antagonistic muscles but the Chest Press involves shoulder flexion and elbow extension so to find the antagonistic move you would reverse that, with shoulder extension and elbow flexion… is that the Bicep Curl? No, it is the Row.

I see where you were coming from, but you are simply wrong… if you have trouble accepting that then before you reply fighting for your ‘honour’ then i suggest you google ‘antagonistic pairs’ under the subject of kinesiology.

The point was simply that the workout is not an antagonistic workout… this is not important in its efficacy, BUT it should be understood if someone is going to go around using the term… to avoid confusion at least.

One more thing… you said:

The pairings you use for your point are Chest and Biceps, then Back and Triceps.

It may surprise you to learn that the Triceps long head crosses the shoulder and as such is quite strongly involved in extension of the joint, this means it is used strongly in rowing moves, as is apparent if you do pullovers or straight arm pulldowns.

ALSO what about the Biceps i hear you ask? Well the same can be said there, the biceps are also involved in shoulder flexion… making your point even less worthy.

hope this helps, cheers

[quote]maplewalnut wrote:
Before ripping apart his schedule because you feel you’re superior to him because he’s asking for advice you should probably look at what muscles are being used in his workouts.

Bench Press uses chest and triceps and in the same day he works his biceps. Biceps pull, triceps push, thus making them antagonistic.

His back and tricep day is the exact same thing.

If you’re not worried about your legs, then keep them in the same day and don’t split up ie. Your calve exercise should be on the same day as your hamstrings/quads.

Work on cardio/running that should thin out your legs a bit and you can determine whether or not “working” on them will be beneficial to you. I’m at a point right now where my legs are still big even after losing fat and I’ve just incorporated leg exercises in my schedule as I’ve been having my cardio doing that for me.

I’d give you more advice on your schedule but I don’t have the time right now. Good luck and hopefully some more people can shed some light on your training.

I’ll give you an idea on my schedule.

Monday - Chest/Biceps
Tuesday - Back/Triceps
Wednesday - Shoulders/Legs
Thursday - Break
Friday - Chest/Back/Shoulders
Saturday - Tricep/Bicep Superset
Sunday - Break

I’m doing full body twice a week. Abs I do every other day and my cardio is twice a week. This is nothing compared to competitive training but I like hard work so I’ve put myself up to the challenge and of course warming up properly even AFTER chest/back for your biceps and tricep is very important so you get the right blood flow to those areas of the body. I don’t want to work on my legs more than I’ve set out to do right now as I will be snowboarding and skiing again soon. As well as I don’t have a squat rack at home so I’d rather not die.

hope this helps, cheers[/quote]

Actually, ‘antagonistic’ would be the muscle opposing the one being work eg. chest vs mid back , biceps vs triceps, quads vs hams etc.

Back and tri’s or chest and bi’s do not really fit the bill altough bi’s are being hit secondary for back etc.

Dips vs pull ups, curls vs extensions, bench vs rows etc. is actually an example of a proper traditional antagonistic workout setup…

Fair enough to both of you, thank you for clarifying this. I wasn’t trying to be a jerk, just so ya know :wink:

Also I realized that my Tuesday and Wednesday were mixed up…so I’ve changed it.

cheers

[quote]maplewalnut wrote:
Fair enough to both of you, thank you for clarifying this. I wasn’t trying to be a jerk, just so ya know :wink:

Also I realized that my Tuesday and Wednesday were mixed up…so I’ve changed it.

cheers[/quote]

OK thankyou too… i am a touchy fucker anyway :wink: