This is to Bill Roberts. I was wondering if you could tell me anything about Pinnacle’s new Androstat 150 poppers. Is pinnacle a legit company, is there delivery system any good? I’ve been taking them for 2.5 weeks and i’ve noticed strength gains and mild acne, so it they have to be working. I just want to hear what you have to say about the new poppers
I really have not looked into the product.
Pinnacle has a good reputation and most
certainly is “legit.” Their delivery system
is certainly one of the ones that has value.
One issue with sublingual absorption is
that the time period in which the absorption
actually occurs is quite brief. Once the
compound isn’t present as a solid in
the mouth, what there is that dissolved
into saliva is very soon swallowed, though
the user will generally be unaware of
this and may even deny it (however, rate
of saliva production is so great that
frequent swallowing absolutely does occur
unconsciously, and if it doesn’t the mouth
rapidly fills with saliva.) So if the
compound has a very short half-life in
the blood – testosterone has a half life
of only a few minutes and the same is
probably true of 4-AD and other prohormones – then the duration of action is very short.
Pinnacle addresses this by using ethylcarbonate esters under license from Biotest, so the duration of action is extended.
I’m not familiar with their test results
but I was told that they were extremely
pleased with how much better results they
found upon using the ethylcarbonate esters
compared to their previous formulation, even though there are only a few milligrams of the ethylcarbonate esters present: apparently the improvement was very, very large.
So about the absorbtion, are you saying that when you are disolving the pill in your mouth you have no choise but to swallow your saliva. And doing so there will be traces of the pill in it and won’t be absorbed. Will this (that gets swallowed) be damaged by the liver, or not. The whole point of the poppers is to disolve into your blood streem, via your mouth. Will it loose its potential?
Does the ethylcarbonate ester protect it only if it is swallowed or when absorbed as well?
Other than Biotests 4-AD what would you say would be second best. I live in canada and i went to the states to get some but i couldn’t find it, so i got the poppers.
So long as you have undissolved product in your mouth, you’re still getting sublingual absorption. After it has fully dissolved, you will for a number of minutes after that until essentially it’s been rinsed out of your mouth by new saliva.
That which is swallowed, if the ethylcarbonate
version, will still be protected from liver metabolism. That which is not will have about 5% bioavailability (an estimate from the manufacturer of that portion of the product.)
I would not want to say what is second best to MAG-10 and 4-AD-EC without doing thorough trials of competing products so as to get them in the correct order, and I haven’t done that. In some cases it’s possible to make specific comparisons that this one is better than that one, but as to which is the best of the others, I really don’t know.
It would be easier to be excited about Pinnacle if they didn’t make an ecdysterone product.
I feel Pinnacle 150 Poppers is a pretty lousy formula and they have been questionable on some of their other products. The 150 poppers have a marginal does of A1E and 4-AD-EC. 15mg of 4-AD-EC and a WHOPPING 2mg of A1E. 2mg??? Give me a break. Also they used to sell a 100 series poppers that were just raw prohormones, no cyclodextrin. Called them poppers all the same, so the inexperienced buyer could have easily mistaken them for more than what they were. I like Cyclodextrin delivery, but their formula and Horse pills really suck. My favorite was Kaizen. Really worked well for a sublingual.
EDog
Hey Edawg have you tried them?
The milligram question is a genuinely interesting one. Well, interesting to a chemist anyway.
Ordinarily speaking, solubilities of two (or more) substances are independent, provided the amount of any one of them is not so much as to be a cosolvent.
So for example, let’s
say that the solubility of A (for example some testosterone ester) is 50 mg per mL in oil and the solubility of B (perhaps another testosterone ester) is 100 mg/mL. What would happen if you tried dissolving both at the same time? Approximately speaking, you could get the 50 mg/mL of A and get the 100 mg/mL of B. (The amount of B is however large enough to have some cosolvent effect, so it is only an approximation. If the amounts were much less than you could neglect it.)
Now the reason all this about solubilities is
relevant is because flux across a membrane is dependent on solubilities.
If for example we were trying to deliver compounds like 4-AD, 4-AD-EC etc. themselves (not complexed with cyclodextrin) then you could deliver just as much 4-AD-EC in the presence of the 4-AD as without.
However, these compounds themselves would have terrible sublingual delivery, well under a milligram I’d think.
With cyclodextrin complexation, you can deliver something like 5 or 10 mg.
Problem is, when cyclodextrin complexed, do you have the phenomenon of independent solubilities, so that having a mixture of different “prohormones” gives just as much of each one as would occur if it were provided alone and therefore a greater total, or since the steroid molecule is enclosed in the cyclodextrin is it irrelevant and the limitation really is in how much cyclodextrin species (regardless of steroid within) is transported?
I don’t know. I suspect the latter. But nonetheless, Pinnacle did find markedly better blood test results when they included the 4-AD-EC. So my guess may be wrong.
Sweet I’ve been wanting to know if Bodyonics/Pinnacle and Biotest were affiliated or why they use MAG10 in poppers if not.