T Nation

Never Ending/With A Twist


#1

In Cy's never ending cycle article he said you could go on for 12-16 weeks and then go off for 2 then go back on with using 200-300 daily 4AD .

I was wanting to see what everyone thinks of doing this but adding either 1-test(like in MAG-10) or M1T for 2-3 weeks at a time during the cycle and then just taking the 4AD with an anti-e and Alpha Male for the next 4 weeks of the cycle and going back and worth like that instead of just 4AD for the entire 16 weeks.

All advise and thoughts on this are welcome especially any from Cy or any forum gurus like P22.
Thanks in advance
DA


#2

Sory bro, I can't help you on this, as I only use illegal steroids, not prohormones which by the way aren't any more legal here in Canada then the illegal ones.

As for myself I tend to do building/ cutting cycles, followed by maintainance cycles. Building/cutting cycles involve high dosages, and use of orals, where as my maintainance cycles involve lower dosages of drugs of lesser toxicity, such as test and deca, or primo. I'll usually take a 4-8 week break when on, before jumping on a new builder or cutter, as the body needs rest from hard core training and juicing.


#3

It's cool P22 no need for sorrow. I know you don't usually talk on ph cycles, I was just seeing if you had any theories about it.

Cy or anyone else please elaborate on any/all ideas you have about my stated cycle..


#4

androgens such as 1 test and methyl-1-test are quite good at shutting down production of endogenous testosterone through AR mediated mechanisms. this will occur in both the brain and the testes. the reason 4AD is used is because it does not bind the AR as well as test. also one could use methenolone and anavar.


#5

I understand that 1-test of any kind will shut down both my testes and LH production. This is why I said I would keep the 4AD going and add in an anti-e plus Alpha Male in the weeks between the 1-test to try to keep my boys production up.

I just want to know if that part of it would work.


#6

No. An overly-simplified way of thinking about this is 1-test and M1T are Class I androgens (if you accept the two-class theory as being accurate)and actual steroids. 4AD is a Class II androgen, a precusor hormone to testosterone in small amounts, but is inherently anabolic on its own, which appears to be fairly unique among the prohormones that are currently on the market.

Bottom line: Don't try this with androgens other than 4AD IF your goal is minimal reduction of natural testosterone.


#7

Exactly, with the exception of methenolone, anavar and formestane


#8

Maybe I have worded my theory poorly...
I understand that my natural production would be suppressed while on the 1-test part of the cycle.
What I am trying to get at is, will staying on 4AD, during pct between the 1-test portions of my cycle, be too much drug in my system for my natural production go back to normal or above normal levels?


#9

define natural production. with 4AD you will have conversion to test, naturally, but not necessary that the rest of the HPTA is functioning. however, it may be possible to restart or even crank the HPTA past normal using clomid 100mg/day, M, Alpha Male, ZMA (your body uses more zinc while on steroids because the binding proteins actually have zinc atoms to coordinate binding to their spot on the DNA at the AR or other receptors), and HCG - sparingly 250 IU every day or EOD if a light cycle. something like M4OHN might be better as people don't seem to have suppression issues, but really you would probably be better off taking the M1T in a separate cycle. i think if you want to stick to the original plan along with a sound diet and some of the supps like M and alpha Male near the end, clomid if you have it. or you could do 2 weeks of 4ad and M1T or 1-test (better) and 4 weeks off with the Alpha Male and M. i would use ZMA too. this would result in minimal suppression and with a tight diet, you could keep the t levels higher than normal most the time. for my cycles, i use winny at 50mg with meal before bed and boldenone orally (i take 200mg/ml in sesame oil and dilute with olive oil to make my homebrew boldenone version of andriol) the dosing on boldenone is 100mg/ml and i take 400-600mg/day in 5 or 6 servings with each of my first 5 or 6 meals. i don't have issues with injecting, but my cycles are 15 days and my body is clear of any appreciable amount of exogenous hormone a day after so i can keep natural production running. i also take 100mg/day clomid and drop to 50 mg after along with the old TRIBEX, worked like a charm :wink: , hell i don't think my production ever dropped and i could feel the clomid kick in, in a day.


#10

Thanks morbo for putting up with my many questions... I believe, although you didn't do it intentionally, your last post talked me into trying out the cycle I had planned.

Hear me out.....I have done 3 separate ph cycles:
cycles 1&2
2 weeks
Mag10 6 caps ed
M1T 10-20mg ed

the 3rd being:

week 1
M1T 30mg ed
week 2-4
400mg 4Ad ed
M4OHN 16mg ed

After both I uses M and Alpha Male and ZMA during and after both. I felt no suppression at all till the last day or 2 of my 3rd cycle and was gone within two days after my last dose of M4OHN.
Since I now have access to letrozole and nolva, I think my suppression will be no existent as long as I keep the 1-Test parts of this cycle to 2 weeks and under. If not I will find out soon enough and I will be able to tell others in the future to just stick to 4AD as a stand alone in extended cycles.
I will probably start this in another month or so and then post how it goes for me......
Thanks for helping out and feel free to flame away.
DA


#11

no flaming at all. your planning is prudent. it seems that you can keep an eye on these things (supression). as for the letrozole, i don't think more than .1mg per day is required (at least with this cycle; counterindications would be if you have estrogen issues, ie you are very succeptible to side effects from estrogen, then 1mg at least just to make sure). my only reservations are that you may not notice your HPTA shut down as you are providing substrate to form test in the form of 4AD. you will still have 'natural' production, but it will mostly be from 4AD that is exogenous.