T Nation

Never Come Down

First, if I’m in the wrong place here, plz let me know - don’t hold back. Maybe I have different goals but I do know that T and TRT are big ticket items for my overall health as I age so I want to find the right balance and get it right. If I can achieve a better physique and become stronger along the way then it’s all good right?

Thanks for this forum. I’ve spent several hours on initial browsing and have a few starter questions. I look forward to educating myself and finding the best path to a stronger body and better health and wellness.

Briefly about me. 57, 6’3", 190 lbs. Declining health the past 4-5 yrs culminating with pneumonia which was very hard to shake this past spring. Probably burned the candle too hot on a crappy diet and ran the thyroid and adrenal through the ringer.

The reason I’m here is that I turned my life upside down a few months ago by abandoning the standard American diet and have changed to a completely nutritarian way of eating and I feel like I’m waking up again in my life - in many different ways . Stronger, more alert, finally sleeping again, way more energy, etc. I had to do something and what I put in my body seemed like a reasonable place to start. It’s quite exciting and I’m finding motivation all over the place.

My ND put my on TRT almost 2 years ago. I started with a compounded cream applied to testicle area and after a few months my testies began to ache. It’s been Androgel ever since.

My initial question is this. In a few more months, once I get more settled into my new diet, and after my body, organs, glands, etc., have had some additional time to heal, would it be worth trying to get off the TRT and just see where I stand? Or at 57 should I just accept the fact that it’s going to be TRT for life? I know I have serious work to do with or without TRT as my T levels are still consistently low even with the Androgel.

I think my naturopath is light years ahead of most doctors on this front and really wants to help me go forward, but she clearly doesn’t have the knowledge I need to make it happen. I’m the one who needs to make it happen - I get that!

These tests were before I completely changed my diet a few months ago. I’d like to understand things well enough by April 1st to go ahead with all new testing to establish a baseline and then move forward…

I don’t want to include much more about my overall health right now because I’m in such a transitional state, but if anyone thinks it would be helpful I’ll submit the full profile…

Again, thanks for providing this forum - seems like an excellent resource to help people go forward…


24hr urine
E1   3.8 3-8
E2 1.6 0-7
E3 5.4 1-16
Total Estrogens 11 4-22
Testosterone LOW 9.0 40-65
DHT 4.9 0-13
Androstanediol 70 48-578
Androstenedione 2.1 Not Established
DHEA 46 5-1476
Androstenetriol (5-AT) 267 42-710
Androsterone (AN) 2969 798-4705
11b-OH-Androsterone (OHAN) 971 461-1692
Etiocholanolone (ET) 1385 689-3252
11b-OH-Etiocholanolone (OHET) HIGH 1405 134-1186
Progesterone - non detected
Pregnanediol (PD) 271 32-501
5-Pregnenetriol (5-PT) 101 28-1062
Cortisone (E) 192 92-366
THE 2278 1365-5788
THB 186 32-238
5a-THB 464 135-588
THA 137 52-277
Cortisol (F) 92 35-168
THF 1587 942-2800
5a-THF 2400 796-2456

Chemistries were all normal mid range with the exception of:
BUN 27 HIGH Mg/dL 6-24
BUN/Creatine ratio 91 9-20

CBC, Platelet Ct, and Diff all in normal average range

Lipid panel showed high total C at 243, high LDL calc at 178, and high ratio at 4.1

TSH 3.350 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500
Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 2.5 pg/mL 2.0-4.4
T4, Free (Direct) 1.10 /dL 0.82-1.77
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab  6  IU/mL 0-34

Testosterone, Free and Total
Testosterone, Serum 422 /dL 348-1197
Free Testosterone (Direct) 7.8  pg/mL 7.2-24

Cortisol - saliva
Morning 9.2 ng/mL 3.7-9.5
Noon 2.3 1.2-3.0
Evening 1.9 0.6-1.9
Night 0.7 0.4-1.0

So 239 reads and not one reply… I must have struck a nerve or got lost in the clutter?

Maybe I’ll just try a few one liners - I REALLY want to get my free T levels up and move forward. This doing nothing and smearing Androgel on every morning is really starting to get me down.

TRUE or FALSE: Supplementing with Androgel is pretty much like kicking tires in terms of effective Testosterone replacement therapy. If a man is serious about getting his free T up to at least reasonable levels, he needs to get going with injections. End of story.

I’ve been on the Androgel for almost 2 years, and my total and free levels are still very low. I’ve doubled to the max Androgel 1.6% dosage (4 pumps) and haven’t noticed any difference. Occasional morning wood, healthy desires, etc…

TRUE or FALSE: At age 57, the idea of just stopping HRT to see how much life is left in your endocrine system in terms of T production is a really bad idea. Even if a person has drastically changed their diet, got strong, feels like a new man, etc, etc, makes no difference. Again, time to get going with injections, get tested, and move on.

My ND is willing to start me on injections. Without getting an updated test (most recent is just a few months old), would it be ok to have her start? And if so, what dosage should I have her start me with? My most recent test results are below…

Someone, anyone PLEASE help me get the ball rolling here…