T Nation

Never Been Called Fat Before...

I had a respected poster on another board tell me that I was too fat to be doing a bulk. What do you guys think?

I’ve been training with CW’s TBT for about 3 weeks now. My calorie intake has been based on Berardi’s Massive Eating articles - 4800 calories/day. I’m the heaviest I’ve ever been as a result. Also seeing good progress in my lifts.

Stats:

Height - 5’10.5"
Weight - 161.5 lbs.
Body Fat - 14.7%

BF % was tested at my gym by a personal trainer using calipers. He said the error was +/- 3%. He didn’t strike me as particularly knowledgeable or experienced. Given this, I’ve linked to my pictures and put my measurements below.

Thigh - 24
Calf - 14.75
Hips - 38.5
Waist - 33.5
Bicep - 12.5
Chest - 38.5

These were taken while relaxed. The pretty constant advice for lightweight noobs around here seems to be EAT MORE, but this is what the other poster had to say:

[quote]
Your gains a are markedly decreased when bulking at such a high body fat. i’m assuming that it was measured accurately, but you want to be well below 10% bf when starting a bulk. somewhere in the 5 to 8% range. Then start bulking until you hit 12%, then maintain for a bit, then do a cut back down to 6-8% etc. being 14% you are going to store a ton of fat that if you were at a lower bodyfat wouldnt happen. [/quote]

Pics:

Front Relaxed - http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/2225/p1010001cc1.jpg

Front Flexed - http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/8040/p1010002bd8.jpg

Front2 Relaxed - http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/8562/p1010004zu7.jpg

Front2 Flexed - http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2904/p1010003od0.jpg

Side Relaxed - http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/9876/p1010006xg4.jpg

Side Flexed - http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9697/p1010005xx5.jpg

Back Relaxed - http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/747/p1010007gc6.jpg

Back Flexed - http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/781/p1010008jo6.jpg

Back2 Relaxed - http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5637/p1010009tv0.jpg

Back2 Flexed - http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3783/p1010010yw8.jpg

Leg Front - http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/7536/p1010011sf0.jpg

Leg Back - http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6227/p1010012sf5.jpg

So should I cut before I bulk? How long should I bulk otherwise? General thoughts?

You have no muscle that is why it looks like shit. Bulk away.

How old are you? Did you measure your waist around the bellybutton? It seems like you should be experiencing newbie gains right now i.e. muscle gain and fat loss at the same time.

BULK!

Why does everyone keep asking this here? I’m not a bodybuilder, but what’s the point of cutting when you are just left with bones and tendons? That’ll really fuck up your endocrine system.

You can’t even get below 10% without having considerable muscle mass to begin with.

  • POC

[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
How old are you? Did you measure your waist around the bellybutton? It seems like you should be experiencing newbie gains right now i.e. muscle gain and fat loss at the same time.[/quote]

28 yrs old. Waist was measured around the belly button. I am getting noticeable muscle gains despite the weak looking pics. Not sure if the fat level is going up or down.

The advice given in my opinion is too complicated especially for a novice. Bulk at 10% until you hit 12% and maintain and so forth. I prefer to keep things simple and recommend keep eating clean with slightly higher protein and calorie amounts and combine that with a solid lifting program.

Be patient and keep doing this for a year or two before expecting to see phenomenal results. You are starting from a point where you lack muscle to great degree. It’s going to take a long time of consistency in good nutrition and lifting to notice big changes.

Good luck,

D

how long have you been training?

following CW’s and JB’s ideas are good. I wouldn’t bulk in the sense of going hog wild and eating everything, but eat clean, extra calories doesn’t look as though it could do too much harm to you now, but keep track of your measurements and pictures, if you think you’re getting too soft, adjust the calories accordingly.

are you supplementing with anything? you could always add some creatine or something similiar to maximize your gains.

Lift and eat until your size/strength gains stop improving and/or you can’t deal with the amount of bodyfat you’ve put on. If you start to put on too much fat with repect to muscle gains, I’d suggest altering your diet and/or altering your training regimine…but don’t end the bulk as still need to add muscle.

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
The advice given in my opinion is too complicated especially for a novice. Bulk at 10% until you hit 12% and maintain and so forth. I prefer to keep things simple and recommend keep eating clean with slightly higher protein and calorie amounts and combine that with a solid lifting program.

Be patient and keep doing this for a year or two before expecting to see phenomenal results. You are starting from a point where you lack muscle to great degree. It’s going to take a long time of consistency in good nutrition and lifting to notice big changes.

Good luck,

D[/quote]

My advice is to re-read this post over and over until your eyes bleed. Then read it again.

BULK.

There is no significant difference between your relaxed and your flexed photos.

If you cut, you will be skin and bones. If you bulk, the added muscle will make you look leaner if your body fat stays about the same or even goes up a little.

If everyone on this site waited to get to 6-8% BF before bulking, we’d all still be 150lbs and cutting.

[quote]blindetheft wrote:

  • 4800 calories/day. I’m the heaviest I’ve ever been as a result. Also seeing good progress in my lifts.

Stats:

Height - 5’10.5"
Weight - 161.5 lbs.
Body Fat - 14.7%

[/quote]

You’re typical skinny fat. Your calories may be too high for a person your weight. Maybe 3500… Eat to keep a one pound a week body weight gain. There’s no sense in cutting, as you don’t have hardly any muscle. I don’t want to see you at 145 pounds (being the proposed body fat % at which to begin a bulk - why? I have no idea who comes up with this shit). Just lift. Then lift heavier.

[quote]blindetheft wrote:
I had a respected poster on another board tell me that I was too fat to be doing a bulk. What do you guys think?

I’ve been training with CW’s TBT for about 3 weeks now. My calorie intake has been based on Berardi’s Massive Eating articles - 4800 calories/day. I’m the heaviest I’ve ever been as a result. Also seeing good progress in my lifts.

[/quote]

Don’t put too much emphasis on the word “bulk”.

Just train hard an eat enough to make steady progress.
It ain’t rocket science.
It’s possible to have a decrease in bodyfat percentage while also increasing muscle mass, when you aren’t an intermediate trainer yet, or just below. No shame in that. Just take advantage of that fact.

Bulk


n3wb

[quote]technic wrote:
how long have you been training? [/quote]

Just started lifting 3 weeks ago. Before that, the only real exercise I’ve gotten recently is mtn biking 3-5 days a week for the last 9 months. Did a 100 mile ride for the first time a last month.

Surge and protein shakes are all I’m using atm. Will look at creatine in the future.

[quote]Modi wrote:
If everyone on this site waited to get to 6-8% BF before bulking, we’d all still be 150lbs and cutting.[/quote]

But don’t you understand this is the way it has to be done? You can’t gain muscle mass unless you dip below that double digit body fat percentage. All the experts here say it’s so. Don’t listen to all the thousands of men that have been doing it successfully over the past forty years using the outdated method of just gaining muscle while maintaining a body fat percentage of 15 to 20. That’s just crazy. [/sarcasm]

[quote]
Your gains a are markedly decreased when bulking at such a high body fat. i’m assuming that it was measured accurately, but you want to be well below 10% bf when starting a bulk. somewhere in the 5 to 8% range. Then start bulking until you hit 12%, then maintain for a bit, then do a cut back down to 6-8% etc. being 14% you are going to store a ton of fat that if you were at a lower bodyfat wouldnt happen. [/quote]

This is some of the most ridiculous “advice” I’ve ever heard.

If someone tried to follow this plan from the very beginning, they would never put on an ounce of muscle because they’re constantly switching from bulking to cutting and back again.

You’re neither fat nor skinny fat.

You just started lifting 3 weeks ago! Maybe it’s time to start with some serious steroids, Fatboy.

as it was stated before, you should get some nice newbie gains. just train hard and keep eating right. try it for a couple months and things should turn out well. as long as the calories are coming from good food, you could probably keep them high (especially if you’re still mountain biking) without gaining too much fat for the first while.

if you are still MB while training hard you might wanna reevaluate your calories to make sure you’re getting enough to build muscle, 'cause it sounds like you’d be burning quite a lot already.

Surge and protein sounds good. although it could help, you don’t need other supplements right now. as you said… in the future.

[quote]technic wrote:

if you are still MB while training hard you might wanna reevaluate your calories to make sure you’re getting enough to build muscle, 'cause it sounds like you’d be burning quite a lot already.[/quote]

I stopped the mtn biking almost completely when I started lifting. I lift M, W, F and just do a hard 2.5 hour 22 mile ride on Sundays. Aside from 5 minute warm ups on the treadmill, this is the only cardio I do.