[quote]kellyc wrote:
Professor X, this is his way of nicely calling you fat.[/quote]
Yeah, I got that. Excuse me while I go cry about it. Then again, I have never claimed to be under 10% body fat and don’t care to be as long as I am not “fat” or have a gut hanging over my pants. I do find it funny that lean body mass is overlooked as if there just couldn’t be some link between muscle size well above average and having bulked up in the past. If I ever decide to compete, I will be sure to ask him what my body fat percentage is while holding a shoe.
light sled dragging and strongman events really do have a place in any athletes program and i would argue that they should have a place in a bodybuilders program
i can attest to how valuable these evercises really are. they help increase an individuals work capacity among other things, they also help you recover from heavy workouts. you call them worthless because you see individuals weaker than you doing the exercises? if they dont train with enough volume or intensity, then your correct they exercises are useless.
simmons made these exercises popular for a reason, they work. he basically copied it from zatiorsky who showed how the fitness-fatigue model is a much better theory of training than supercompensation. supercompensation is how bodybuilders typically train. you go to the gym, you train, break your muscles down then you wait till they are repaired and train again. though you can still get very strong, you could be even stronger if you applied some of the theories zatsiorsky/simmons preach.
these exercises might help hypertrophy in bodybuilders because the muscles would not yet be adapted to these exercises and because they would increase work capacity and help you have even heavier loading weeks…meaning think of how your toughest week of training is now…and imagine being able to handle alot more in terms of volume
You seem to be upset simply because I don’t think sled pulls offer much benefit for anyone aside from those competing in events that utilize similar. Obviously, if someone is very muscular, most will assume that whatever he is doing is working for him. If someone is small, they will not get that same benefit of the doubt and they truly shouldn’t in my opinion.[/quote]
I don’t see how you can think that increasing work capacity isn’t beneficial for anyone involved in a strength sport (including lifting weights as a “hobby”).
Damn, some of you must not do your homework when it comes to sled dragging etc.
The recovery factor was mentioned as if you’d be better off staying home and “recovering”. How thoughtful! Due to the fact that there is no eccentric component to dragging a sled and loading is relatively low, it is very “recovery” oriented.
I have a semi-pro soccer player that tells me his speed (even in HS) was nothing compared to what it is now. He claims his sprint speed has jumped tremendously since incorporating the sled into his strength regimen.
His DL jumped up about 40 lbs, since flipping the tire as well. Must be a coincidence.
And Joe DeFranco must not know what he’s doing after all (not to mention Dave Tate and most of Westside’s members).
And as far as non-athletes go, I train many. I have a 62 y/o who starts and finishes his workouts with indoor sled drags. His bodyfat has dropped about 5% since he started this. That and the fact that his last physical was passed with flying colors because his “wind” is way up.
Since sled dragging builds the glutes, hams, hips, calves all at the same time, why the hell would you not want to do this?
Oh, did I mention that it’s good to train outside? And if your not careful, you may just have FUN?
Don’t even get me started on Farmers Walk and truck/car pushing.
It seemed as though it was being said that unless you compete, training the “events” was a waste of time.
Using that “logic”, jumping rope is useless unless you compete in Double-Dutch!
[quote]Big Adam wrote:
Alright, at the risk of sounding unpopular:
I think doing all this crap in your yard and out on the street smacks of trashy. In my neighborhood, we all expect our neighbors to take good care of their homes, their lawns, cars, etc. In other words, our home can only be as beautiful as the neighborhood around it.
With that being said, if you’re a quiet neighbor, who doesn’t really interact with the people in the homes around you, but occasionally busts out the sled in the street, I’m sorry, but that’s just trashy. You have lowered the value of all of that block’s homes.[/quote]
That may just be the most moronic thing I have ever read on this site.
[quote]Big Adam wrote:
Alright, at the risk of sounding unpopular:
I think doing all this crap in your yard and out on the street smacks of trashy. In my neighborhood, we all expect our neighbors to take good care of their homes, their lawns, cars, etc. In other words, our home can only be as beautiful as the neighborhood around it.
With that being said, if you’re a quiet neighbor, who doesn’t really interact with the people in the homes around you, but occasionally busts out the sled in the street, I’m sorry, but that’s just trashy. You have lowered the value of all of that block’s homes.[/quote]
Well then break out the caviar and the champagne for you!!! When you were a kid, did you play stickball, kickball, football, or anything else in the street with your friends??? Did that lower the value of your houses??? Well organized training in the front yard would never lower the value. Leaving the equipment everywhere like a junkyard would. I feel sorry if that’s actually the way you feel.
hey who edited the title to the American spelling, booooooooo
We like extra U’s in the middle of words over here. And a tyre is the correct spelling, tire is something you do during a workout
Anyway, this is all getting a bit antagonistic isn’t it
anyway i’m off out in the morning for some skipping and sandbag work, as i need to lower the tone of the neighbo[u]rhood to make my house price go down [ as i have to pay off the exx 1/2 the equity]
You seem to be upset simply because I don’t think sled pulls offer much benefit for anyone aside from those competing in events that utilize similar. Obviously, if someone is very muscular, most will assume that whatever he is doing is working for him. If someone is small, they will not get that same benefit of the doubt and they truly shouldn’t in my opinion.
I don’t see how you can think that increasing work capacity isn’t beneficial for anyone involved in a strength sport (including lifting weights as a “hobby”).
[/quote]
My work capacity is increased anytime I add cardio back into my program. It has led me to understanding that occasional cardio may not be the devil even though it may need to be scaled way back when gaining.
Since sled dragging builds the glutes, hams, hips, calves all at the same time, why the hell would you not want to do this?[/quote]
Squats and calf raises do the same.
[quote]
Oh, did I mention that it’s good to train outside? And if your not careful, you may just have FUN?[/quote]
It’s “good” to train outside? I think it’s “good” to train in the gym. I don’t think it is “bad” to train outside, but I do think I see more results in the gym. You all are pulling sleds for “active recovery”?
[quote]
Don’t even get me started on Farmers Walk and truck/car pushing.[/quote]
Get started.
[quote]
It seemed as though it was being said that unless you compete, training the “events” was a waste of time.
Using that “logic”, jumping rope is useless unless you compete in Double-Dutch! [/quote]
Perhaps it is. Why is jumping rope a necessity? It is a “must add” to my routine? What happens if I don’t jump rope?
[quote]Big Adam wrote:
Alright, at the risk of sounding unpopular:
I think doing all this crap in your yard and out on the street smacks of trashy. In my neighborhood, we all expect our neighbors to take good care of their homes, their lawns, cars, etc. In other words, our home can only be as beautiful as the neighborhood around it.
With that being said, if you’re a quiet neighbor, who doesn’t really interact with the people in the homes around you, but occasionally busts out the sled in the street, I’m sorry, but that’s just trashy. You have lowered the value of all of that block’s homes.[/quote]
I don’t expect my neighbors to do anything. I sure as hell don’t expect them to conform to what I think a yard should look like unless it is harming my yard for some reason. Trashy? What happened to “nosy”? You sound like a truly fucked up neighbor to have. You sound like the type to call the cops if I invited someone over who parked in front of your yard because my drive way was full.
My work capacity is increased anytime I add cardio back into my program. It has led me to understanding that occasional cardio may not be the devil even though it may need to be scaled way back when gaining.[/quote]
Unless you are doing weighted cardio or you weigh 500lbs I doubt that lightly jogging on a treadmill or riding a stationary bike is going to significantly increase your work capacity to any degree unless you are severely out of shape.
My work capacity is increased anytime I add cardio back into my program. It has led me to understanding that occasional cardio may not be the devil even though it may need to be scaled way back when gaining.
Unless you are doing weighted cardio or you weigh 500lbs I doubt that lightly jogging on a treadmill or riding a stationary bike is going to significantly increase your work capacity to any degree unless you are severely out of shape.[/quote]
It increases it just fine for what I do in the gym. To what degree should my work capacity be raised? Let’s clear something up before we go further. Are you even keeping this within the realm of weight training or are you about to pretend as if we are talking about olympic Sprinters? Let me know so I can make huge leaps of logic as well.
, I do consider much of that stuff to be a large waste of time unless you are involved in strongman events. .[/quote]
Yawn…
I would rather be outside anyways.
My neighbors think Im absolutely nuts. First it was the pullup bar I nailed to a tree. Then, its the constant jumping rope I do. Or all the plyometric boxes i have set up that I do various work on. Or when Im out doing medicine ball throws, or sprints, or beating people up in the field arcoss my apartment doing brazilian jujitsu with various friends.
Either way, i dont think any of my neighbors would give me any flack or ever try and break in. LOL.
[quote]derek wrote:
I have a semi-pro soccer player that tells me his speed (even in HS) was nothing compared to what it is now. He claims his sprint speed has jumped tremendously since incorporating the sled into his strength regimen.
[/quote]
Either way, if you want to get fast and jump high, you will NEVER EVER be able to do so by only going to a gym and lifting weights. EVER.
Without proper jump/plyometric/sprint work, forget about it.
The weights will help supplement your program, but are nowehere near as effective on their own.
I think it all depends on what types of work capacity you need. The only work capacity a bodybuilder NEEDS is developed by lifting weights and maybe a little cardio.
I think there’s definitly plenty of benefits to the “strongman” type of training.
1.) Grip Development. For just about every sport (especially sports like football and baseball), grip and forearm strength is vital. Farmer’s walks I think are one of the best ways to do this. Of course, you could do this in a gym but a lot of gyms are pretty crowded.
2.) Stabilizer Development. It’s along the same lines why some of the Westside guys throw in high-rep dumbell presses on the Swiss ball for a week or two every few months. Obviously the prime movers are way more important, but if you have weak stabilizers, taking a week or two to hit some “functional training” (yes that was a joke!) can bring that up and there’s a good chance you will see some improvements in your main lifts.
3.) Fun! Personally, I enjoy training at the gym, but I can see how it would bore somebody. If somebody’s not enjoying working out in the gym, their intensity is not going to be the same.
I think the problem that a lot of people find with the strongman-type stuff is that it’s kind of hard to quantify exactly how much work you are doing (or at least not as easy as barbell/dumbell exercises). However, this doesn’t mean you can get big doing this. There are plenty of big farmboys out there who haven’t touched a weight in their life. I doubt you will get the same physique development, but I’m sure you can get very strong doing this type of training.
agree with what derek just said and add that i meant to say that if that sled dragging is useless if the intensity in the weight room is not high enough, the sled dragging should be kept at a low intensity…when you build your work capacity you could go heavier
bottom line these exercises work though…
the hockey players i train love sled dragging. they race each other sometimes and you have to slow them down to make sure their hips are forward but they look forward to it every session…
it is a blast to train with…very safe, very easy too
[quote]Professor X wrote:
RIT Jared wrote:
Professor X wrote:
My work capacity is increased anytime I add cardio back into my program. It has led me to understanding that occasional cardio may not be the devil even though it may need to be scaled way back when gaining.
Unless you are doing weighted cardio or you weigh 500lbs I doubt that lightly jogging on a treadmill or riding a stationary bike is going to significantly increase your work capacity to any degree unless you are severely out of shape.
It increases it just fine for what I do in the gym. To what degree should my work capacity be raised? Let’s clear something up before we go further. Are you even keeping this within the realm of weight training or are you about to pretend as if we are talking about olympic Sprinters? Let me know so I can make huge leaps of logic as well.[/quote]
I was referring to weight training and work capacity in general, not your specific weight training and work capacity. Maybe it would be nice to have many threads dedicated to your specific training regime, but I don’t think that would make for very good debate and wouldn’t be very interesting to anyone but yourself.
I don’t know where these huge leaps of logic come from as I thought I was being fairly general with respect to training and conditioning.
Forgive me as I have to go to class, so I unfortunately cannot respond to any more of your putting words in my mouth until later this evening.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I think it all depends on what types of work capacity you need. The only work capacity a bodybuilder NEEDS is developed by lifting weights and maybe a little cardio.
I think there’s definitly plenty of benefits to the “strongman” type of training.
1.) Grip Development. For just about every sport (especially sports like football and baseball), grip and forearm strength is vital. Farmer’s walks I think are one of the best ways to do this. Of course, you could do this in a gym but a lot of gyms are pretty crowded.
2.) Stabilizer Development. It’s along the same lines why some of the Westside guys throw in high-rep dumbell presses on the Swiss ball for a week or two every few months. Obviously the prime movers are way more important, but if you have weak stabilizers, taking a week or two to hit some “functional training” (yes that was a joke!) can bring that up and there’s a good chance you will see some improvements in your main lifts.
3.) Fun! Personally, I enjoy training at the gym, but I can see how it would bore somebody. If somebody’s not enjoying working out in the gym, their intensity is not going to be the same.
I think the problem that a lot of people find with the strongman-type stuff is that it’s kind of hard to quantify exactly how much work you are doing (or at least not as easy as barbell/dumbell exercises). However, this doesn’t mean you can get big doing this. There are plenty of big farmboys out there who haven’t touched a weight in their life. I doubt you will get the same physique development, but I’m sure you can get very strong doing this type of training.[/quote]
Good post. There is nothing I disagree with except youi crediting grip development with farmer’s walks as if you can’t develop them even better through other means.
