T Nation

Negative Sides From 1 Injection Per Week to E3D, Need Advice

I’ve been on T Cypionate injections for 6 mos gradually increased to 160 mg once per week. Two weeks ago I broke that dose to 80 mg E3D. Since switching to E3d, my erections have gone downhill, my libido is not as high, and I’m slightly irritable. I’m wondering if, due to the more frequent injections, should I also have decreased my total weekly dose? Say, 70 mg E3d? OR do you think it’s just the change in protocol that’s causing my issues?

The reason I switched in the first place is because, although I was feeling pretty good at 160 mg once per week, (good libido, good morning wood, good general mood, good strength) I thought maybe the more frequent, smaller dose would make me feel even better, I’m looking for good to great, and finding that “optimal protocol” so I wanted to give it a try.

I’m also considering trying 50 mg EOD. Just looking for some advice about which option I should move toward: (stay at 80 mg E3D and wait it out; switch to 70 mg E3D, or go to 50 mg EOD… or some other idea entirely)

Stats:
46 yo, good diet, lean, athletic
745 TT
12.5 FT
53 SHBG
47 E2

Thanks

Not unreasonable, though the “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it” phrase could apply to you. “Strength is a greedy mistress” could also apply.

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You are feeling unwell because your testosterone and estrogen levels are no longer stable. When you start TRT or whenever you make a change to your TRT protocol your levels become unstable and the body has to adapt to the new hormone levels.

You should regain your libido and erectile strength in 2-4 weeks. In the future if you ever make a change to your TRT protocol, expect to regain libido and erections 6 weeks later. My gym performance stalls during those first 6 weeks after making changes.

Twice weekly is fine unless attempting to lower estrogen, than EOD is a good idea.

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I disagree with the above. For one, I know most day pin 2x a wk, but if you were stable and felt good the you should have kept it at 1x a wk. I wouldn’t pin every 3 days, I would do every Sunday and Wednesday or Monday and Thursday. Anytime you pin 2x etc a wk, IMO, you create MORE stability in blood levels of testosterone and this increased levels which, increases the chance of aromitization. You could be concerting testosterone to estrogen. You may need an AI. But get some bloods done on e2, that’s the only way you will know. Don’t play the guessing game.

Most likely your E2 is a little high in relation to your T. You are carrying the E2 of the higher single dose but didn’t offset it with the bigger dose like normal. It should balance out in a few weeks. I would have been tempted to do 100 first shot and 80 second shot and then go with 80, You would get a bit of a rise in T for a week, but the transition would be a little smoother.

In theory it would appear you are correct, but in reality most men will see lower estrogen the smaller more frequent the injection. Also more frequent injections will require less testosterone to achieve the same levels which previously took more because you need less because you are not having to compensate for the loss that occurs between longer injection frequencies when levels are declining for longer.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. It sounds like I should probably ride the 80 mg E3D out for a few more weeks to see if things improve before tinkering again.

My SHBG us on the higher end, so maybe 1x per week was sufficient, but I guess I am under the impression that more frequent injections are generally always better.

My E2 is also on the high side, I was hoping that E3D would lower that without having to resort to an AI.

I’m not sure how a S, W or M, R schedule could be any more stable than just a straight E3D schedule. I would think the latter would be more stable.

The main thing I’m still wondering about is whether a small dose reduction would be necessary due to the more frequent injections? ie, lower weekly total on more frequent injections.

If you retain similar levels when moving to more frequent injections, in my experience and many others, you will see estrogen lower and trough levels higher. The hormone profile will be different, levels will be higher more often and is critical for some men like myself, TRT is more effective.

I sleep much better when injecting daily vs EOD and the difference in sleep beyond EOD just worsens.

That makes me want to go to EOD, and is precisely the type of thing that made me move to more frequent than 1x week. Does anyone else have similar experiences on ED or EOD versus less frequent injections?

More is not better, more often is not in and of itself better. If someone has low SHBG they will have a higher free T and react adversely to larger injections. In such cases they simply cannot deal with a large shot because the body tries to use it all too quickly - they would be better on a short ester and frequent injections (Test C or E is really not the best choice for them, Test Prop would be better or a scrotal cream). Other guys need the big shot of long ester to overcome their SHBG. Some guys do better on twice a week because it provides a more even hormone level. Most guys are fine on once a week and the E2 takes care of itself given some time - usually.

There aren’t many guys that can run 160 mg/wk and not need an AI. I don’t think your weekly E3D had anything to do with it. Your E2 from the 160 mg/wk has finely gone high enough it is effecting you in negative ways. IMO you either need to drop your dose or start taking an AI.
A simple E2 blood test will prove me right or wrong.

All that said if you have high SHGB you should go back to once a week. How much is still the question.

So you went to more frequent injections and increased your dose at the same time. You need time to stabilize again. Btw do you do im?

Can be said enough…

I understand what you’re saying, that’s why I was contemplating a lower, more frequent dose – say 50 mg EOD instead of 80 mg E3D. I think the EOD dosing would take care of the high estrogen issue more, or as effectively as lowering the dose more than that.

As far as going back to once per week, I’m looking for a more stable dosing. I really believe that would be better estrogen-wise, DHT-wise, and maintaining a more constant level of FT. My SHBG is on the high side, but not terribly so. I t makes sense to me to do more frequent doses regardless of SHBG levels just to better mimic natural T production. I could very well be wrong though.

Well, I could have went the E3.5D route and the dose would remain constant, but I figured why not just do 3 instead. On a weekly basis it is a slight increase. However, that was my main question on this whole thread – should I have lowered the Total weekly dose to compensate for the more frequent injections?

I do SubQ injections. Why do you ask? Do you think IM would benefit my circumstances in any way?

I understand the logic of dosing frequently if low SHBG, but does the reverse also hold true? Should someone with higher SHBG necessarily dose less frequently ie, weekly?

The bigger dose tends to drive down SHBG, which can be good if your SHBG is too high. Also, the high dose gives you free T by putting too much T in over a short period of time for the SHBG to handle. Once the SHBG is bound, what’s left is free. Your liver is always making more, so it theoretically could simply outproduce your dose if you do small frequent injections.

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This is BS. You will never simulate being natty with T cyp or E they just don’t release from their oil like that. Since you don’t want our advice do whatever you want no one here really cares just get bloods and learn from your mistakes.

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I think some people just need a larger shot to feel it.

I’ve done twice a month shots, weekly shots, e3d, eod and daily. The only protocols I think I may have felt something was on weekly and every other week shots. These protocols use large doses.

I did feel a little more energy on eod shots.

Right now I’m on 100-125mg e5d. Trying that.

I don’t know op. Ride out e3d and see where you land. Where all different.

hardartery - That’s an interesting perspective. Thanks for the info!

Geez, defensive much? Sorry for questioning your wisdom.