Need TRT But Can't Get It

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
21

What little labwork that was done:

I’m 6’1, 230

Lipid panel
Triglycerides 120
Total cholesterol 203
HDL 61
LDL 118

CHOL/HDLC Ratio 3.3
Comprehensive metabolic panel with EGFR
Glucose 84
Urea Nitrogen (BUN) 18
Creatinine 1.05
BUN Creatinine Ratio 17
Sodium 142
Potassium 4.7
Chloride 105
Carbon Dioxide 26
Calcium 10.0
Protein, Total 7.5
Albumin 5.1
Globulin 2.4
Alb/Glob ratio 2.1
Bilirubin, Total 0.9
Alkaline Phosphatase 56
AST 55
ALT 133
CBC (includes DIFF/PLT)
White blood cell count 4.9
Red blood cell count 5.19
Hemoglobin 16.9
Hematocrit 49.2
MCV 94.9
MCH 32.6
MCHC 34.3
RDW 13.1
Platelet count 261
Absolute Neutrophils 2465
Absolute Lymphocytes 1882
Absolute Monocytes 397
Absolute Eosinophils 123
Absolute Basophils 34
Neutrophils 50.3
Lymphocytes 38.4
Monocytes 8.1
Eosinophils 2.5
Basophils 0.7

Hepatitis B Surface
Antigen W/Confirmation Non-Reactive

Hepatitis C Antibody Non-Reactive
Signal to cut-off 0.07

Hepatitis B Surface >1000
Antibody (Quant) Patient has immunity to Hepatitis B

This is exactly what is on the lab papers they gave me. Maybe someone on here can tell me what all this means.

22

i’ll check my labwork on monday but you should have received along with the results a numerical range of what is considered normal, high or low for each particular category.

this looks as though it is a standard blood work up. From past experience I’d say you may be looking at taking a statin like lipitor. I hate that crap. It gave me muscle cramps in my stomach muscles when i would bend over or in my legs about 3am.

Some find relief with coQ10. I tried it and never did. so i dumped the lipitor as it treats the symptom not the underlying cause (there is a lot of info on statins and much isn’t good). Just recently read there are a lot of alternatives to this class of drugs that my be more beneficial but the big pharma really push this stuff so you won’t win by arguing with the doc that you’re not taking it.

many docs just do not want to prescribe TRT as it seems to me inviting fed oversight/investigation and just a hassle to deal with it along with insurance claims etc. Remember they’re a business not a not-for-profit organization so this isn’t a money making proposition unless they’re claiming to be an anti aging clinic and charging big bucks upfront.

23

IMO Hulkazoid if I am right in thinking you were given T-CYP 100mg once a month then at the dose you were given it isn’t going to do anything for you. I also had high blood pressure and it was from my Hematocrit being high from taking to much Testosterone (150mg once a week), taking a pint of blood cured that along with lowering my dose to 100mg once a week.

As with all meds HRT has side effects, but alot less than most other meds doctors would give a man that has all the symptoms of low testosterone. Just think about all the meds you would be on. I am not saying you need Cypionate, just letting you know you didn’t get anything from it because your doctor doesn’t know enough about it to treat.

This not a bad thing just normal. this is all cutting edge treatment and a lot of doctor just do not know about it. It is not covered hardly at all in medical school before and not to much now from what I hear. I also have PTSD and things can be very confusing for a doctor when so many things can be at play. Sorry to hear about your experiences.

t2low, you need to get another doctor plain and simple. You must have test done to find out for sure. If you have a doctor that is so bad he will not even give you test to see then brother you need to mbe running from this guy. I do not care what his reasoning is.

In my opinion any doctor that worries about insurance companies more than his patients for any reason is a quack. But we got to put up with these so called doctors. But save your money on Anastrazole and get the test if nothing else. This way you know for sure.

Also if this so called doctor won’t write for a simple blood test why would you think he would help you if you do come back low? A knowledgeable doctor is very important for this treatment. As you read there are side effects that must be looked out for and treated properly.

Good luck to both of you

24

I’m already looking for ANOTHER new doctor. I only went to this one twice, but it’s enough to know that he’s one of those types that gets offended if you present an idea to him that he didn’t come up with. He just kind of had that attitude that he’s the one that has all those diplomas hanging on his wall and who am I to question him.

Does anyone know if there’s a way to search for doctors in my area that have prescribed TRT? I found an anti-aging clinic but I’m sure the costs of that are way out of my reach. Would it be appropriate to just start going through the book and calling and asking if a doctor is open to prescribing TRT/HRT? I don’t want to have to keep going through a bunch of office visits just to find the same crap.

I’m going to look into Life Extension that KSman suggested to maybe go ahead and get labs before I go to any new doctor.

25

Well, now we’re talking and we have some solid information to work with.

This is important. It’s not really old enough for the standard “age related” lower T problems and that’s good to know. Having low T at 69 is a different story than low T at 39.

A reasonable response to an unreasonable doctor.

I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth, I was just making a point that how you talk to your doctor makes a difference. There was no mention before of how it all came down and it was just as likely that you were part of the problem as much as your doctor was. You’d be surprised at how many guys I talk to who are total idiots when it comes to talking to doctors.

Body composition is an issue because fat produces estrogen and aromatase and that robs you of testosterone. So one of the things you can do to help yourself is to lose the fat. If you’re committed to making your life better, getting on a diet and exercise program is an essential element.

I know exactly where you’re coming from because I was in exactly that same place not too many years ago. I was fat, depressed, hadn’t had morning wood in years, and went to bed every night hoping I wouldn’t wake up the next morning.

Doctors pushed anti-depressants at me. I even had my testosterone checked and I was told it was “fine” because it came in at the low end of the reference range. My E2 was at the high end of the reference range, so it was also called “fine.”

One day I simply decided that I had enough and I got on a diet and exercise program and my life started getting better. I did the research, started talking to doctors and ended up self-medicating. It’s not something I recommend to anyone else, but that’s what was necessary for me to get where I wanted to be and I don’t regret it.

As for finding a doctor… lie. Use the phone to screen them. “I have primary hypogonadism and I’m looking for a TRT specialist. Are you currently treating patients with TRT?” “Are you accepting new TRT patients?” There’s no need to go any deeper into your situation with them. All you’re trying to do is find someone in ball park.

They either are or are not treating patients with TRT. Obviously you don’t want to waste your time with some guy who isn’t already working with TRT patients. Call every doctor in your area that is approved by your insurance company. Two hours on the phone could save you months of frustration and since you already know they work with your insurance, you wouldn’t have to pay for your tests out of pocket and you’ll know before you go in that you’ll be talking to a guy who is willing to talk about testosterone.

I know how bad the place is that you’re in. I was in it for fifteen years. But I also know that it didn’t get better until I made it get better. You’re obviously trying, so stick with that. Don’t give up.

I got it all back and you can too. It is possible. It will be the hardest thing you ever did, but it is possible if you refuse to give up.

Don’t give up on the doctor route until you’ve exhausted every possibility. It is possible to do this all on your own, but it’s not something to take lightly and it is against the law.

26

IMO
Thanks to the DEA and the small amount of doctors who have abused giving someone TRT outside the norm. Doctors are more and more becoming skeptical about going the TRT route for a well needing patient.

I always asked myself, if it is okay for a doctor to pop me with 750mg of TR every week, why should it be illegal for a guy needing 100mg a week for personal TRT to self administer after proper medical advisement.

Diabetics inject insulin on their own, which if done incorrectly can jack up system just as bad and even cause death.

Just a thought.

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Are you suggesting that self-injecting is illegal?

28

Well, I went back for one more try with this Dr. It was like pulling teeth, but I got him to sign off on the labs. I had printed out Dr. Chrisler’s info on what labs should be done, but my Dr. wouldn’t go for all of it. He wouldn’t even go for the Estradiol check. I had to argue with him to finally get him to do it. He said that Estradiol is a female issue and that he wouldn’t even know how do deal with it if it comes back out of norm. Oh well, at least I’ll have the labs and can make the right decisions from there. Hopefully they’ll be back Friday.

29

So he does not know that E causes BHP and depression. When T is very low and E is lowish, one can be very estrogen dominant.

Women have testosterone and guys have estrogen and some progesterone. E is not a female issue. Guys have breast tissue and share all of the body constructs as women except as affected by the Y chromosome. When E dominates, guys get female fat patterns.

You need to buy him a book. But books that have interesting TRT info, do not discuss AIs. My book will.

Remind your doc that men get breast cancer and gynecomastia - effects of elevated or high E2.

E2 kills libido and men stop ejaculating. Semen in the seminal vessels sits there and petrifies. This causes inflammation. Products of inflammation spread to the prostate and cause inflamitory damage to the structure as well as DNA. Also, there is a small amount of uterus tissue in males that also has branches through the prostate. E will get that working. With low T, it easy to have a T:E ratio that is low enough to cause prostate problems. E does this, T does not. Doctors and medical schools had it completely wrong.

1 Like
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KSman, I wish you were my Doctor!!!

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!@#$% !@#$% !@#$%
Dr. just called with my lab results…!@#$%
He said everything was normal. Here are the numbers:

Total Testosterone 586.9

Estradiol 40

Tryglycerides 116

Total Cholesterol 181

HDL 54

LDL 104

Now what? I feel like an ass for arguing with him over all this. I really thought my problem was going to be T or E.
I thought the end of this misery was in sight when I finally convinced him to test me. I don’t know what to do now.

32

Wow t2low, how can this be?
In your earlier wittings I was going to suggest Finding yet another Doctor maybe with a sports medicine background.

I hope he wouldn’t play with those numbers just to make himself right.
Maybe someone else here has some ideas…

33

Get some l-dex and lower that E number and you will probably feel transformed. PM for dosing info.

Lower E will increase LH and T, lower E will lower SHBG which should increase your %FT. Less E will reduce E opposition of the effects of T.

Libido, mood, energy and clarity of thought can be gained.

E2=37 made me feel like crap with TT>1000.

34

[quote]Steve8867 wrote:
Wow t2low, how can this be?
In your earlier wittings I was going to suggest Finding yet another Doctor maybe with a sports medicine background.

I hope he wouldn’t play with those numbers just to make himself right.
Maybe someone else here has some ideas…
[/quote]

I hope he wouldn’t play with them either. I don’t think he could. The blood was drawn at another office and sent to the lab and his assistant actually called me with the results.

35

[quote]KSman wrote:
Get some l-dex and lower that E number and you will probably feel transformed. PM for dosing info.

Lower E will increase LH and T, lower E will lower SHBG which should increase your %FT. Less E will reduce E opposition of the effects of T.

Libido, mood, energy and clarity of thought can be gained.

E2=37 made me feel like crap with TT>1000.[/quote]

I’m ready! I PM’d you.

36

WOW! Only been one week and I already feel better. Morning wood? More like morning CONCRETE! It was so hard this morning and lasted so long, it was almost annoying.

I had to make an adjustment on dosage yesterday. I started out with a front load last Saturday and Sunday of .5mg each day. I then went to one drop/day for the rest of the week but wasn’t noticing much. So yesterday I upped it to 3 drops. What a difference that made.

I have noticed a gradual improvment in mood, erections and energy as the week went on and feel really good today. After only a week!!!
It is unbelievable that I could have been in such a rut for years and in just one week I could feel this much better. This site and you people are a lifesaver. I appreciate everything and will keep updating as time passes.

37

That is the “TRANSFORMATION”

An Epiphany!

You now have a real knowledge about something that most docs totally lack.

Your T did not change… your T:E ratio changed.

38

Woke up bright and early this morning feeling great. I couldn’t roll over because I was sporting some major wood again, so I just got out of bed. Man I feel like a 16 year old again! It would usually take all the energy I could muster to drag myself out of bed, not the last few days though.
Decided to continue my research with 3 drops again yesterday. I think that is going to be the sweet spot, so I’ll stick with it for awhile.

A few questions have come to mind during this research that I am getting ready to investigate, just to settle my own curiosities. I’m not lazy, not anymore anyway :), and I’m not asking for everyone else to find this stuff out for me, but if anyone has answers or thoughts on these questions, please feel free to post them.

  1. What kind of kickbacks do doctors get from the pharmas. when they prescribe their meds.? I ask this because, in my experience, doctors are quick to prescribe anti-depressants, ED drugs, and so forth, without really delving into what is causing the problems in the first place. After reading post, after post, after post of men benefitting from anti- E’s, and personally experiencing what has been close to a miracle cure for myself, I can’t understand why my E2 was never questioned during the last several years of doctors visits for my deteriorating quality of life. Furthermore, why was it so taboo for me to even bring it up to my doctor? This brings me to my next question…

  2. What are the potential short, and more importantly, long term negative effects of using an anti-E? Maybe there are none, but if there are, that might help explain why docs don’t want to go there.

  3. About research chems., have there been any legal cases supporting a persons right to conduct research on themselves? I would be willing to let any scientific or other study review my personal situation. It really bothers me that many people may be taking anti-depressants, ED drugs, and who knows what else when all they may need is an anti-E and/or TRT. For me, just anti-E. I never had near the benefit from anti-depressants and Levitra that I have had in just the past week from anti-E. As a matter of fact, those prior treatments just made me more miserable.

I sincerely hope more men find this forum in their search for a cure. It has been a miracle for me.

Edit:
I’m thinking I should put this post over on happydog’s Estradiol thread. That has been an awesome thread to follow.

39

SSRIs place demands on P450 liver enzymes which then reduces E elimination rates - higher estrogen and less T. Many drugs do this. Grapefruit, whole or juice also has this effect. Wellbutrin and trazodone have the opposite effect and will increase E clearance, leading to less serum E2.

Anastrozole has no known direct negative effects. If anastrozole is used to achieve an optimal E2 level, ones quality of life will be optimal as much as other factors will allow.

The brain needs a lot of E. There is aromatase in the brain that makes E for local use. If serum E2 is too low, mental functioning become impaired and one does not feel well, other than losing libido. E2 in the lower 20’s, near 20 is considered optimal from a libido point of view. I really think that libido and well-being go hand in hand, and when libido is best, everything else is great.

1 Like
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[quote]KSman wrote:
Skin can get frail and dry/scaly with low thyroid levels. Also leads to low energy, fat gain and feeling cold.

Low T can make skin thin and inelastic. Pinching up the skin can have a very slow recovery, like a very aged person. TRT can completely restore the skin. Also nails can be slow growing, thin and brittle, but low thyroid levels can do that too. It is not so hard to get a doc to treat hypothyroidism, but many docs can do it very wrong.
[/quote]

KSman;

 I find this very interesting. In winter/spring 2005, I noticed several things happening to me. The first was that my sex drive was slowing down, and the second was that I developed eczema. In the past 3 years since, my sex drive has slowed even more, although not to the point where I can't perform. It's just that I don't think about it. And I used to be pretty horny. Also, my eczema has gotten worse in the past 3 years. I asked my doc and he said the two weren't related. 

 In late 2005, I went to an endo and my T was 357. I don't have any other levels, as back then I didn't know what to ask for. The end said that I was at the low end of normal, and that if I was concerned, there were several avenues I could take, but didn't elaborate. I just left it at that and continued on with my life. 

 I'm going to get tested again. Because my insurance doesn't cover the LEF test, I'm going to print it out and show to my doc, and hopefully I can have that test done thru my insurance. I think the group we use is Quest.

Brian