T Nation

Need to Gain Strength and Size

I’m 19, not exactly new to training but not advanced either, really need to increase my strength all around, and the size that comes with wouldn’t bother me either. Strength is the focus though. I’m 6’2" and 177.8 naked as of this morning. I know I’m skinny whatever that’s why I’m here. Goal weight is 186 4 months from now I think it’s achievable, even tho I’m a natural ecto.

Don’t have a program yet but focuses are:
Squats (need to go up a lot)
Deads
Bench (needs to go up)
Press
Rows
Pulldowns

Those’ll be my main pillars, everything else’ll revolve around those. Split’ll prob be:
Mon: Squats, Leg Press, and squat assistance work
Tue: Bench, Press, and push assistance work
Wed: Deads, Glute Ham, probably power cleans (what assistance work can i do here?)
Fri: Squats, Leg Press, & assistance
Sat: Rows, Pulldowns, & pulls assistance

First 2 compounds of each workout’ll be something between 4X8 and 5X5, assistance between 4X8 and 3-5X12
Diet: Over 4K cals daily, high protein and relatively high fat daily, more carbs on Mon, Tue, Fri, and Sat. (those days’ll probably be closer to 4.5-5K cals)

Not worried about staying lean it isn’t difficult for me. also volume’s fine i recover well naturally
Also I’ll be on multi-v’s, whey, & creatine. & I have sex frequently, i’ve heard that helps.

any tweaks, suggestions, comments are helpful, I’d love to hear from some bigger more experienced ppl. thanks
oh and right now my maxes are
Squat: 275 for 3
Bench 225 for 2
Dead 315 for 3
Press 185 for 2

[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:

Not worried about staying lean it isn’t difficult for me. also volume’s fine i recover well naturally
Also I’ll be on multi-v’s, whey, & creatine. & I have sex frequently, i’ve heard that helps.

[/quote]

  1. Get married, then you won’t have to worry about sex getting in the way of your training.

  2. Get on a proven program and eat a lot of protein. I like 5/3/1 with the Boring But Big template, if you chose to do that one, buy the e-book.

[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:
I’m 19, not exactly new to training but not advanced either, really need to increase my strength all around, and the size that comes with wouldn’t bother me either. Strength is the focus though. I’m 6’2" and 177.8 naked as of this morning. I know I’m skinny whatever that’s why I’m here. Goal weight is 186 4 months from now I think it’s achievable, even tho I’m a natural ecto.

Don’t have a program yet but focuses are:
Squats (need to go up a lot)
Deads
Bench (needs to go up)
Press
Rows
Pulldowns

Those’ll be my main pillars, everything else’ll revolve around those. Split’ll prob be:
Mon: Squats, Leg Press, and squat assistance work
Tue: Bench, Press, and push assistance work
Wed: Deads, Glute Ham, probably power cleans (what assistance work can i do here?)
Fri: Squats, Leg Press, & assistance
Sat: Rows, Pulldowns, & pulls assistance

First 2 compounds of each workout’ll be something between 4X8 and 5X5, assistance between 4X8 and 3-5X12
Diet: Over 4K cals daily, high protein and relatively high fat daily, more carbs on Mon, Tue, Fri, and Sat. (those days’ll probably be closer to 4.5-5K cals)

Not worried about staying lean it isn’t difficult for me. also volume’s fine i recover well naturally
Also I’ll be on multi-v’s, whey, & creatine. & I have sex frequently, i’ve heard that helps.

any tweaks, suggestions, comments are helpful, I’d love to hear from some bigger more experienced ppl. thanks
oh and right now my maxes are
Squat: 275 for 3
Bench 225 for 2
Dead 315 for 3
Press 185 for 2[/quote]

You’re on the right track. My only suggestion would be that you use some kind of built in progression on your main lifts instead of just a general rep range (general rep range is fine for assistance work).

Something like 5/3/1, Juggernaut method, the ed coan program percentages, or any other intellegence progression (percentage based stuff) will be fine.

As far as assistance work for the main lifts, here are some good options:

Bench and Press: dips, db press (flat, incline, overhead), shoulder work (lateral and rear raises), face pulls, arm work (tricep pushdowns, db extensions, curls)

Squat and Deadlift: leg press, lunges, good mornings, RDLs, GHRs, leg curls

Don’t forget lots of rows (dumbell, barbell, chest supported), chins (or lat pulldowns if you can’t do a decent amount) and ab work (ab wheel, leg raises, db side bends)

Also, I’m not suggesting you do all of those each training day. Just pick 2 or 3 each time for 3-5 sets of 10-15 reps.

I can’t believe nobody has asked this.

how in gods name are you pressing 185x2 when your bench is 225x2.

pretty sure when i benched 225x2, i could barely get 135x2.

wtf???

and a 315x3 deadlift?? pretty sure i got 315 when my bench was barely 135 lmao

i have no idea how this happened…mind = blown.

op dont make your own routine, use something that was already made and has been proven to work

Its not bad at all, just buy 5/3/1 and do that with the bodybuilding template–its sorta what you’re doing but you’ll have a progression method built into your training so you’ll get stronger on the 4 lifts.

And yeah, how do you overhead press 185?–If you do, DAMN.

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
I can’t believe nobody has asked this.

how in gods name are you pressing 185x2 when your bench is 225x2.

great minds think alike

Different people have different strong points. My barbell OHP and dumbbell bench are basically the same weight (to within 10 lbs). I’ll know more about barbell bench tomorrow–plan to max it out for kicks since I got my power rack assembled tonight.

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
I can’t believe nobody has asked this.

how in gods name are you pressing 185x2 when your bench is 225x2.

pretty sure when i benched 225x2, i could barely get 135x2.

wtf???

and a 315x3 deadlift?? pretty sure i got 315 when my bench was barely 135 lmao

i have no idea how this happened…mind = blown.

op dont make your own routine, use something that was already made and has been proven to work[/quote]

I call bullshit on you being able to bench 225 for 2 reps.

Same, at your weight and height I find it difficult to see you benching 225 for 2 reps to chest. Also 185 for 2 reps? Is this strict with no legs involved? I bench over 315 pounds and can only strict press slightly more than that.

Anyway, for novices your main aim should be to increase strength to start then you can think about more hypertrophy based workouts. Your suggested workout seems pretty solid especially with the multiple squats a week. I would personally do 5*5s until my strength is pretty good (this will put on size as well) then you can add in more reps. Power cleans are always a good addition but should really be done before the deads.

IMO I would keep the assistance to a minimum and work on getting solid at the compounds first. Also you probably don’t eat enough so work out how much you are taking in per day and compare it to calorie intake for athletes.

Also: squats are the key! Get strong on these and you will dominate in everything. Don’t be obsessed by bench press. Buy some olympic lifting shoes and do them ATG

[quote]oly-ali wrote:
Same, at your weight and height I find it difficult to see you benching 225 for 2 reps to chest. Also 185 for 2 reps? Is this strict with no legs involved? I bench over 315 pounds and can only strict press slightly more than that.

Anyway, for novices your main aim should be to increase strength to start then you can think about more hypertrophy based workouts. Your suggested workout seems pretty solid especially with the multiple squats a week. I would personally do 5*5s until my strength is pretty good (this will put on size as well) then you can add in more reps. Power cleans are always a good addition but should really be done before the deads.

IMO I would keep the assistance to a minimum and work on getting solid at the compounds first. Also you probably don’t eat enough so work out how much you are taking in per day and compare it to calorie intake for athletes.

[/quote]

Like I said I recover pretty well & i’m trying to focus on squats so i think i’ll b good w/ doing them twice a week. and yea pc’s would be done before deads.

I can bench 225 for 2, but the press is standing so I probably do cheat a little. I’ve done 145X5 sitting though, so maybe sitting max ~155/165ish.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
You’re on the right track. My only suggestion would be that you use some kind of built in progression on your main lifts instead of just a general rep range (general rep range is fine for assistance work).

Something like 5/3/1, Juggernaut method, the ed coan program percentages, or any other intellegence progression (percentage based stuff) will be fine.

As far as assistance work for the main lifts, here are some good options:

Bench and Press: dips, db press (flat, incline, overhead), shoulder work (lateral and rear raises), face pulls, arm work (tricep pushdowns, db extensions, curls)

Squat and Deadlift: leg press, lunges, good mornings, RDLs, GHRs, leg curls

Don’t forget lots of rows (dumbell, barbell, chest supported), chins (or lat pulldowns if you can’t do a decent amount) and ab work (ab wheel, leg raises, db side bends)

Also, I’m not suggesting you do all of those each training day. Just pick 2 or 3 each time for 3-5 sets of 10-15 reps.[/quote]

I will have some sort of progression, probably not as low as 5/3/1 to start but after a few weeks maybe. Thx for the assistance options GHR’s, good morning’s & chins will def be in there, prob weekly. also ab work will be there prob 2-3 days/week.

? for anybody: is 4-4.5K high enough calorie wise to get this done in 4 mo’s or should I do more?

[quote]oly-ali wrote:
Also: squats are the key! Get strong on these and you will dominate in everything. Don’t be obsessed by bench press. Buy some olympic lifting shoes and do them ATG[/quote]

Not trying to be a dick, but that’s not the best advice. If he gets someone knowledgeable to coach him on proper squat technique then it would be different. If he has any pelvic rounding in the lower part of the movement it will eventually lead to injury.

I only bring this up because I followed this advice in my younger days and always squatted ATG. I quit after I realized two things: one, I had definate pelvic rounding a few inches below parallel and two, it was a hell of a lot harder to decelerate the weight to just past parallel, come to a full stop, and then reverse the movement back up than just bottoming out.

I’m not sure where the idea came from that ATG was a lot harder than squatting past parallel. At least for me it never was. It’s harder than quarter squatting, though.

[quote]oly-ali wrote:
Also: squats are the key! Get strong on these and you will dominate in everything. Don’t be obsessed by bench press. Buy some olympic lifting shoes and do them ATG[/quote]

False. If you want a better upper body, squats aren’t going to do much to get you there. ATG is not a great idea for everyone, hell I’d say for most people. Squats might be “the greatest exercise ever” according to some people, but it doesn’t translate very well to upper body strength or size. A good squat does not = dominate in everything.

[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
You’re on the right track. My only suggestion would be that you use some kind of built in progression on your main lifts instead of just a general rep range (general rep range is fine for assistance work).

Something like 5/3/1, Juggernaut method, the ed coan program percentages, or any other intellegence progression (percentage based stuff) will be fine.

As far as assistance work for the main lifts, here are some good options:

Bench and Press: dips, db press (flat, incline, overhead), shoulder work (lateral and rear raises), face pulls, arm work (tricep pushdowns, db extensions, curls)

Squat and Deadlift: leg press, lunges, good mornings, RDLs, GHRs, leg curls

Don’t forget lots of rows (dumbell, barbell, chest supported), chins (or lat pulldowns if you can’t do a decent amount) and ab work (ab wheel, leg raises, db side bends)

Also, I’m not suggesting you do all of those each training day. Just pick 2 or 3 each time for 3-5 sets of 10-15 reps.[/quote]

I will have some sort of progression, probably not as low as 5/3/1 to start but after a few weeks maybe. Thx for the assistance options GHR’s, good morning’s & chins will def be in there, prob weekly. also ab work will be there prob 2-3 days/week.

? for anybody: is 4-4.5K high enough calorie wise to get this done in 4 mo’s or should I do more? [/quote]

Ok good. It doesn’t really matter as long as you have one, they all work.

The only way to know if it is enough is to try it and see what happens, and adjust from there.