T Nation

Need Some Eyes, Have Progress Pics; Advice Needed...

Hey all…
I’ve been on a program that “Phoenix_Theory” wrote for me for a little bit over 3 weeks now.

At the beginning… I weighed 194.
Now, I weigh 195.

I’ve done ZERO cardio, but his program is based around High Intensity, and explosive movements. According to him it is based around lifts and movements that need a higher metabolism to be performed at fully capacity (I dont know how to word that…)

His program works me harder than anything I’ve done alone so far, so thats good… but I personally am not seeing the fat loss as far as numbers go.

My question is, since I had just added in squats/DL’s and other leg movements as a more focused part of my workout, could I be packing on leg mass that is hiding my fat loss numbers from me?

Progress pics:

ME IN APRIL 14th 2008


ME, MAY 23 2008 (PRE-WORKOUT PLAN, AFTER CARDIO + LIFTING BALANCED)

ME TODAY




I am wondering if I should stick to this plan or start a new one up, because although I do feel a bit more athletic, I dont see a huge change in may to today as far as fat loss goes (my goal…)

I am getting 2,300 cals a day on average and my Fats, Proteins and Carbs break down like this…

40% Carb, 30% protein, 30% fats (mostly good…)

So, whats wrong here?

Post a detailed diet/workout plan. We need those in order to give you good advice.

You do look like you have gotten thinner, but not by much, I’m sure theres room for improvement.

P.S. Sunchips still don’t count as good food.

Time to bump up the calories, work your way up to 3000 a day, I promise ou won’t get fat. I would have to say the program is only as good as how quickly it lets you add weight to the squat, deadlift, clean, bench, row, or whatever big lifts you’re doing.

What are your maxes at? Where do YOU want them to be. Then someone may be able to help you get there.

Try spending two weeks at 15% carb, 50% protein, and 35% fats on non training days. Keep the calories the same. Time the majority of your carbohydrate intake post workout on training days, which means keeping your diet the same except for 2 scoops of Surge post workout on training days.

Add in 45 minutes a day of some form of mild cardio such as, incline walking, biking, etc. Or,5x300meter sprints(1 min break), 2-3 times a week.

And increase your NEPA/NEAT; so move more during the day.

Keep your training the same.

Uh… not by much? I mean, I know I’m asking for advice here but I’m also very aware that my april pics are 18lbs HEAVIER than my today pictures.

I have not ate sunchips in months, have no idea what you’re smoking.

I’m not sure what I can post of Phoenix Theory’s plan, but I’ll see what I can do.

What I eat.

Morning:
Oatmeal
Banana
Whey Protein shake
Maybe a piece of toast with natural pb on it, depends on how im feeling…

-Workout-

Post-Workout meal:
Tuna sandwich on wheat bread w/ lettuce
Banana
Grapes, orange, or an apple

2 hrs after PW meal:
Tuna Wrap with a banana, low carb wrap.
another banana (what can I eat other than a banana…?)
Might have another wrap with more tuna haha

3 hours after that… quick snack
Wheat bread with a bunch of Natural PB on it, with celery and packed down… tastes good.

Dinner:
Chicken Breast, Steak, Lean Burger, Pasta etc.
Veggies of sorts, or a salad
Always some fruit

banana afterwards

2 hrs after dinner:
Protein shake

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
time to bump up the calories, work your way up to 3000 a day, I promise ou won’t get fat. I would have to say the program is only as good as how quickly it lets you add weight to the squat, deadlift, clean, bench, row, or whatever big lifts you’re doing.

What are your maxes at? Where do YOU want them to be. Then someone may be able to help you get there.[/quote]

My deadlift max is somewhere around 300 maybe more, I will lose form about 350 though. I have not done 1rm or any maxes for that matter but today for example I did 242lbs deadlift 20 times, sets of 5 to 6.

My squats are hovering at about 200 to 250 as far as 1rm goes… They shoot up exponentially with the weeks… For example, my first week of squats I was doing like 110, 30 reps and it was giving me problems.

Last week I did 180, 20 reps and they were easy… on a medium load day. So I’m not too sure but it is good gains in the leg and back department. Rows I can do up to 200lbs, which is the max for the machine I use for those. Clean I dont know and I dont do them as I dont know the form and they werent a part of my plan (I know, I know, but I dont want to take the time to learn the form during a plan that doesnt include them).

Bench I dont know.

You just started deadlifting and squatting? Put emphasis on those my friend. Build up that posterior chain, maximize the recruitment of your nervous system, and consume the most calories by lifting a shit ton of weight using your whole body.

Make those absolute staples in your workout and you will find immediate strength gains, not to mention some fat loss assuming you are highly intense. Just my opinion.

If I read correctly, most of you are telling me to BULK and not aim for fat loss exclusively…

Question is: How do I know if I’m ready for that? As you can tell I still have a lot of mid section fat to take care of, how would bulking help me in that…

I can’t see Kleiner making these recommendations, and her work is referenced in at least 2 of Alwyn’s books and I think several other authors here.

You need carbohydrates to add muscle mass after you’re sure you’re getting adequate protein (1 g/lb).

Had my 3rd meal of the day just now…

3 spoonfulls of tuna and 2 spoonfuls of pink salmon

lettuce

light chipotle flavored mayo

1 flour tortilla

When you do 20 reps are you doing 5 sets of 4 or just 20 straight reps?

[quote]HangerBaby wrote:
If I read correctly, most of you are telling me to BULK and not aim for fat loss exclusively…

Question is: How do I know if I’m ready for that? As you can tell I still have a lot of mid section fat to take care of, how would bulking help me in that…[/quote]

I’m not telling you to bulk but if you gained 10 pounds of muscle and had the same amount of fat then you’d look a lot better. Also, try shaving the squirrel off your chest and get a tan. That’ll work wonders in itself.

If you already lost 18 pounds on one plan, why did you stop? Go with what works. For me cardio speeds weight loss a lot. I don’t run 3 miles, but I play soccer and other sports.

[quote]joburnet wrote:

I’m not telling you to bulk but if you gained 10 pounds of muscle and had the same amount of fat then you’d look a lot better. Also, try shaving the squirrel off your chest and get a tan. That’ll work wonders in itself.

If you already lost 18 pounds on one plan, why did you stop? Go with what works. For me cardio speeds weight loss a lot. I don’t run 3 miles, but I play soccer and other sports. [/quote]

Hahaha, thanks for the good laugh.
Don’t think I’ll be able to shave my body as I grow hair back so fast that it would be ridiculously time consuming to keep up with.

and point taken on the muscle…
I’ll see about next week, maybe I’ll get on a 5x5 or something.

My old plan plateaued thats why I stopped.

[quote]HangerBaby wrote:

and point taken on the muscle…
I’ll see about next week, maybe I’ll get on a 5x5 or something.
My old plan plateaued thats why I stopped.
[/quote]

If losing weight and you plateau, decrease calories slightly every week until you start to see results again, or add/increase cardio.

I have a very simple suggestion. It’s not a joke.

Keep everything the same for two weeks except:

Stop eating bananas.

Seriously, 3 or 4 bananas a day is A LOT of calories. Low carb diets mean you have to limit sugary fruits too.

[quote]MtbKid wrote:
HangerBaby wrote:

and point taken on the muscle…
I’ll see about next week, maybe I’ll get on a 5x5 or something.
My old plan plateaued thats why I stopped.

If losing weight and you plateau, decrease calories slightly every week until you start to see results again, or add/increase cardio.[/quote]

Lower than 2,300 and I would start losing muscle…

Why are you not consuming your protein shake at this time? It ought to be whey, for one. For two, you are doing a wise thing by consuming high GI carbs right after the workout via fresh fruit. Down the shake before you even get in the shower at the gym or walk out the door. When you get home, eat the aforementioned meal.

Also, remember that muscle is active tissue. For every pound of lean muscle mass you add, thats another 50-60 calories a day added to your RMR. So, by working the hell out of your big muscles (hips, legs, back) you will add the most muscle most quickly.

How much water are you drinking?? I drink 100 ounces (3 x 32oz bottle) just during my workout alone. Muscle is 80% water, my friend.

Replace one of your bananas with vegetables. Doe not make dietary sense to eat 5 pieces of fruit and a pathetic salad once a day.

[quote]MtbKid wrote:
HangerBaby wrote:

and point taken on the muscle…
I’ll see about next week, maybe I’ll get on a 5x5 or something.
My old plan plateaued thats why I stopped.

If losing weight and you plateau, decrease calories slightly every week until you start to see results again, or add/increase cardio.[/quote]

I disagree, plateauing means that your body has adapted to your decrease in calories by decreasing your metabolism. I prefer to boost metabolism by increasing calories to a maintenance level and then restart the diet. This is what works for me at least, I never diet for more then 2-3 weeks at a time.

The 5x5 plan has worked great for me but I would actually suggest you start the Westside for skinny bastards workout. It’s usually better to pick a plan that a professional laid out then to do it yourself.

[quote]HangerBaby wrote:
If I read correctly, most of you are telling me to BULK and not aim for fat loss exclusively…

Question is: How do I know if I’m ready for that? As you can tell I still have a lot of mid section fat to take care of, how would bulking help me in that…[/quote]

Switch up to a volume based lifting regiment. 12-15 rep per set range. You will increase muscle size and accumulate a good deal of oxygen debt while you are at it, which will cause a good jump in your metabolism.

In this type of lifting regiment, 3000 cal wouldn’t necessarrily be bulking, but more like maintainance feeding. Fat loss would be a secondary benefit.

[quote]HangerBaby wrote:
If I read correctly, most of you are telling me to BULK and not aim for fat loss exclusively…

Question is: How do I know if I’m ready for that? As you can tell I still have a lot of mid section fat to take care of, how would bulking help me in that…[/quote]

you’re ready. It won’t help you immediately, but if you eat relatively clean, your shoulders, chest, back, quads, hams, calves and arms will be bigger without any real noticable fat gain. THEN diet down. Also a routine like madcows 5x5 with intensity will help you stay leanerish due to the calorie burning nature of the core lifts in that program.

my 2cents.