Need More Calories

[Professor_X]

[quote]sven33 wrote:
He is getting a lot of good fats and carbs.
Looking over his daily meal, his protein stuck out to
me as the biggest deficiency.[/quote]

So, you skipped right over his overall caloric intake and PROTEIN shined its light on you?

[quote]
I agree overall calories are the issue and a good balance is the best strategy. But the right calories. [/quote]

At 130lbs, there are “wrong calories”? If you respond to this implying that anyone is telling this kid to eat six meals worth of cookie dough, you deserve death and then an extra killing just to be sure.

Most of the literature i have read from contributors here and elsewhere for as far back as i can remember state a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight is good maintenance and a good starting point. For someone trying to gain weight or bulk, 1.5 grams per pound is usually recommended in most articles i’ve read which is where i came up with 200 grams per day.

Wait, you fogot the art of name dropping. That is where you find an author’s name and say, “Well, so and so said this”. When I am gaining, my first focus is caloric intake. If my meals revolve around avoiding pure powdered sugar, my protein “requirement” usually falls right into place. To make a claim of 1.5gr per pound being necessary for growth, however, has no basis. It is an opinion. I have made very good gains the past before I could even afford any protein supplements. According to you, this should be impossible.

You think based on his meal breakdown that he is getting enough protein in a day? That is the protein intake you would recommend to someone bulking? His 3 eggs in the morning is now fine?

Are you high? I don’t think he is eating well AT ALL but his protein intake should not be his overall greatest concern at 130lbs.

[sven33]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, you skipped right over his overall caloric intake and PROTEIN shined its light on you?[/quote]

Yep.

At 130lbs, there are “wrong calories”? If you respond to this implying that anyone is telling this kid to eat six meals worth of cookie dough, you deserve death and then an extra killing just to be sure.

Yes of course there are wrong calories, are you kidding me?
What ARE you recommending he eat if i am so wrong? Enlighten us all.

Wait, you fogot the art of name dropping. That is where you find an author’s name and say, “Well, so and so said this”. When I am gaining, my first focus is caloric intake. If my meals revolve around avoiding pure powdered sugar, my protein “requirement” usually falls right into place. To make a claim of 1.5gr per pound being necessary for growth, however, has no basis. It is an opinion. I have made very good gains the past before I could even afford any protein supplements. According to you, this should be impossible.

Sure, i’ll name drop, why not.

Berardi:
“It seems to me that whether someone’s on a hypoenergetic diet or a hyperenergetic diet, the one macronutrient they would want to be sure to overeat would be protein. Instead, their protein prejudice often leads most trainees to look for what they consider the bare minimum of protein, and then overeat carbohydrates and fats instead. That’s a big performance and body composition mistake.
I have yet to meet a healthy man or woman that couldn’t use more protein in his or her diet. It’s high time we drop our prejudiced attitude toward protein and start giving it the respect it deserves.”

Cy Wilson:
Yep, I agree. For a typical bodybuilder, there’s no question that a minimum of 1 g/lb is an absolute necessity. I think metabolism has a lot to do with intake so in cases where the person has a fast metabolism, I’d go with 1.25 to 1.50 g/lb.

Lonnie:
Having said that, I think there are real body composition advantages to eating upwards of 1.5 g/ lb. That’s right, overfeed protein!

Dorian Yates: 1.5 grams per pound
Lee Labrada: 40 grams per meal for six meals.
Lee Haney: 1.3 per pound
Coleman: 55% daily cals from protein
Cutler: 400 grams daily.

X, do YOU have any names to drop besides your own? I’d love to hear why Dr. Berardi (Cy wilson, Lonnie Lowery, etc) and the Mr. Olympias and contendors of the last 15 years all have it wrong and YOU have it right. You are truly an innovator.

Are you high? I don’t think he is eating well AT ALL but his protein intake should not be his overall greatest concern at 130lbs.

Yes, yes, X, you are spending a lot of time and energy correcting me and explaining what the wrong things to do are while offering nothing.

Who’s high?

Again, (for what, the 3rd or fourth time now?) what do you recommend he should do?

[Professor_X]

[quote]sven33 wrote:
X, do YOU have any names to drop besides your own? I’d love to hear why Dr. Berardi (Cy wilson, Lonnie Lowery, etc) and the Mr. Olympias and contendors of the last 15 years all have it wrong and YOU have it right. You are truly an innovator.[/quote]

I need no names to drop. I understand that a guy weighing 130lbs should have no problem getting protein if his calories are high enough. Getting over 200gr as you suggested he NEEDED to start with goes against even the people you quoted. Cy wrote at least 1gr per pound of body weight and made it variable depending on metabolism. At 130lbs, even with 1.25gr of protein it is still less than what you told him he needs to start with. Why do YOU not even listen to the people YOU quoted?

I can’t even believe you listed what pro bodybuilders eat like in comparison to a kid weighing 130lbs. Are you serious?

[sven33]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I need no names to drop. I understand that a guy weighing 130lbs should have no problem getting protein if his calories are high enough. Getting over 200gr as you suggested he NEEDED to start with goes against even the people you quoted. Cy wrote at least 1gr per pound of body weight and made it variable depending on metabolism. At 130lbs, even with 1.25gr of protein it is still less than what you told him he needs to start with. Why do YOU not even listen to the people YOU quoted?

I can’t even believe you listed what pro bodybuilders eat like in comparison to a kid weighing 130lbs. Are you serious? [/quote]

Who am i going against exactly?
Cy, Lonnie and JB all recommend upwards of 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight for someone with a relatively high metabolism, which it seems like this kid has. 1.5 x 130= 195 grams.

Am i missing something or are you seriously quibbling over 5-10 grams of protein too much?
Didn’t you just say there are no “wrong” calories for a kid at that weight?

Sure i listed pro bodybuilders.
They are the only people in the world who’s sole job is to build as much muscle as possible. If there’s something ALL of them consistently do, we should make note of it, no?

Before you get started, yes, i understand the drug factor, but i think you’ll find these same equations with various strength athletes, natural bodybuilders and sports nutrition experts (like JB, Cy and Lonnie…etc)

The stupidest part about all this, is that i don’t think we actually disagree.
He needs more calories overall. Agreed.

Do you really disagree with the suggestion that some of those additional calories should come from protein?

I don’t believe that if this kid was a client of yours looking to bulk, that you would increase his overall calories and not adjust his protein intake at all.

[874445435]

Dorian Yates: 1.5 grams per pound
Lee Labrada: 40 grams per meal for six meals.
Lee Haney: 1.3 per pound
Coleman: 55% daily cals from protein
Cutler: 400 grams daily.

Victor Richards 10g per lb. ; )

[mike08042]

X is totally right and knows what he is talking about. If you want to gain weight you eat more calories, and at 200 grams of protein per day obviously it is not a problem, he needs more carbs and more fats… duhhh. Prof X has gained weight and so have I, so if you are saying its about protein, you are wrong. I have gained weight alot easier by eating more of everything. I used to eat 3-4 big macs a day along with tons of other SHIT, and true I didnt gain only muscle but alot of fat but when you are 130lbs, and saying 3.3% bodyfat than obviously you just need to intake more calories.

Calories in, calories out. If you take in more calories than you burn, thats how you gain weight. Its that simple. I weigh 285 lbs, and I dont eat close to my weight in protein because I cannot afford it. If you really want to gain weight, fuckin eat and train, and keep eating, eat all damn day. When I wanted to gain weight really badly, I ate anything and everything and it worked, and once I was satisfied with the weight I would cut to get rid of the fat I accumulated.

I personally believe that even if you eat alot of stuff, ie hamburgers, eggs, steak, bread, whatever and as long as you train heavily you shouldnt gain that much fat, as if that is even an issue for someone that is 130 with extreme low bodyfat.

[sven33]

[quote]Le Stig wrote:
Dorian Yates: 1.5 grams per pound
Lee Labrada: 40 grams per meal for six meals.
Lee Haney: 1.3 per pound
Coleman: 55% daily cals from protein
Cutler: 400 grams daily.

Victor Richards 10g per lb. ; )[/quote]

hahahaha.
whoah…haven’t heard THAT name in a while.
thick as a vic!

[sven33]

[quote]mike08042 wrote:
X is totally right and knows what he is talking about. If you want to gain weight you eat more calories, and at 200 grams of protein per day obviously it is not a problem, he needs more carbs and more fats… duhhh. Prof X has gained weight and so have I, so if you are saying its about protein, you are wrong. I have gained weight alot easier by eating more of everything. I used to eat 3-4 big macs a day along with tons of other SHIT, and true I didnt gain only muscle but alot of fat but when you are 130lbs, and saying 3.3% bodyfat than obviously you just need to intake more calories.

Calories in, calories out. If you take in more calories than you burn, thats how you gain weight. Its that simple. I weigh 285 lbs, and I dont eat close to my weight in protein because I cannot afford it. If you really want to gain weight, fuckin eat and train, and keep eating, eat all damn day. When I wanted to gain weight really badly, I ate anything and everything and it worked, and once I was satisfied with the weight I would cut to get rid of the fat I accumulated.

I personally believe that even if you eat alot of stuff, ie hamburgers, eggs, steak, bread, whatever and as long as you train heavily you shouldnt gain that much fat, as if that is even an issue for someone that is 130 with extreme low bodyfat.
[/quote]

Did you actually say duhhh?
Duh yourself, read the thread, dude.
The kid is not getting 200 grams a day he’s getting far less.

And no, i don’t agree that i can eat pizza and cheesburgers all day long, as long as i make sure to “train heavy” i’ll pack on tons of muscle.
Ridiculous.

I don’t just want to gain “weight” or lose “weight”.

A calorie is not a calorie.

[mike08042]

A calorie is a calorie when your 130 lbs and want to gain weight. Its not rocketscience, 1 gram per pound is enough, but not everyone is going to gain weight by eating tons of protein.

[mike08042]

[quote]sven33 wrote:
mike08042 wrote:
X is totally right and knows what he is talking about. If you want to gain weight you eat more calories, and at 200 grams of protein per day obviously it is not a problem, he needs more carbs and more fats… duhhh. Prof X has gained weight and so have I, so if you are saying its about protein, you are wrong. I have gained weight alot easier by eating more of everything. I used to eat 3-4 big macs a day along with tons of other SHIT, and true I didnt gain only muscle but alot of fat but when you are 130lbs, and saying 3.3% bodyfat than obviously you just need to intake more calories.

Calories in, calories out. If you take in more calories than you burn, thats how you gain weight. Its that simple. I weigh 285 lbs, and I dont eat close to my weight in protein because I cannot afford it. If you really want to gain weight, fuckin eat and train, and keep eating, eat all damn day. When I wanted to gain weight really badly, I ate anything and everything and it worked, and once I was satisfied with the weight I would cut to get rid of the fat I accumulated.

I personally believe that even if you eat alot of stuff, ie hamburgers, eggs, steak, bread, whatever and as long as you train heavily you shouldnt gain that much fat, as if that is even an issue for someone that is 130 with extreme low bodyfat.

Did you actually say duhhh?
Duh yourself, read the thread, dude.
The kid is not getting 200 grams a day he’s getting far less.

And no, i don’t agree that i can eat pizza and cheesburgers all day long, as long as i make sure to “train heavy” i’ll pack on tons of muscle.
Ridiculous.

I don’t just want to gain “weight” or lose “weight”.

A calorie is not a calorie.
[/quote]

You will gain weight, and the more you weigh the more muscle you can obtain by training hard.

And you say you dont just want to gain or lose weight? That makes no sense, this kid weighs 130??? what you think he wants to slowly add mass? I dont know about anyone else but if I was 130 I would be packing on the weight, he obviously has a ways to go before deciding that he should eat extremely clean while he has 3% BF. If you want to gain a good amount of weight you will gain fat, its a no brainer.

[Professor_X]

[quote]sven33 wrote:
Who am i going against exactly?
Cy, Lonnie and JB all recommend upwards of 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight for someone with a relatively high metabolism, which it seems like this kid has. 1.5 x 130= 195 grams.
[/quote]

Why are you lying now? In the quote that YOU posted from Cy, he didn’t write “upwards of 1.5gr per pound”. he wrote that as the MOST he would recommend. You wrote that this guy needed at least 200gr as if he won’t grow unless his main concern is protein. The two are not the same.

You are the one who posted the quote. Why try to change it now? This guy’s main focus should not be on protein. If he is eating enough calories, that will be covered unless he is eating pure junk at 130lbs.

[BillO21]

Bro you opened up a can of worms. Most people just dont know how to react to a question like this because they have no problem eating excess calories, myself included. I do remember when I was younger (your age) I couldnt gain weight either. I think your diet looks pretty good except for a few areas you can change to make a huge difference.

1. Why do you need egg whites? EAT the whole effing EGG! There are ~ 17 cal in an egg white and ~80 cal / whole egg! Have a 5 egg omelet ~400 cal.
2. Skim mozzarella! Come on just by the shit with fat in it.
3. PWO one scoop of whey?
4. Eat the whole can of tuna.
5. How much yogurt and why not fat! Get the whole milk stuff. You can even add a scoop of protein to it.
6. Why 1% cottage cheese EAT the fat!
7. Get some flax oil. One tablespoon has 14g of fat.
8. Add some natty peanut butter as other members have suggested.

You can do the few things Ive outlined here and easily add 1,000 calories to your diet. You need to research and find what macro ratio you want to go with. Take this ratio and lay out your diet. Once you eat like that for a week see what happens to your BW and adjust accordingly.

[sven33]

[quote]mike08042 wrote:
A calorie is a calorie when your 130 lbs and want to gain weight. Its not rocketscience, 1 gram per pound is enough, but not everyone is going to gain weight by eating tons of protein.[/quote]

A calorie is a calorie? It is huh?
So it doesn’t matter what the calories are composed of as long as he gets them in there?

Then he can eat only ice cream, cheese and drink beer and gain lots of muscle?
Man…had no idea it was that simple.

Better tell Berardi.

[sven33]

[quote]You will gain weight, and the more you weigh the more muscle you can obtain by training hard.

And you say you dont just want to gain or lose weight? That makes no sense, this kid weighs 130??? what you think he wants to slowly add mass? I dont know about anyone else but if I was 130 I would be packing on the weight, he obviously has a ways to go before deciding that he should eat extremely clean while he has 3% BF. If you want to gain a good amount of weight you will gain fat, its a no brainer. [/quote]

Heavy does not equal muscular.
There are plenty of big, heavy people out there that have a very low percentage of muscle, and it’s not just because they are not lifting weights.
Nutrient selection and timing is a big factor.

I said i don’t want to just gain or lose weight.
What i mean by this is “weight” does not indicate body composition. The ideal is to make most of your gains muscle.

Yes, in bulking you will put on fat, but it doesn’t have to be a lot. You accomplish that by THINKING and then eating.

[mike08042]

I didnt say to eat totally junk, all I mean is alot of carbs alot of fats and alot of protein. I never said eating 4 big macs a day was healthy, but it is calories, and if i weighed 130lbs i would be drinking a 12 pack of beer everyday, i wish i could do that now… simply burgers, steak, whole grain breads. there are you happy now? better make sure its all extra lean because you wouldnt want the poor guy with 3.3% BF to get fat…

[sven33]

[quote]Why are you lying now? In the quote that YOU posted from Cy, he didn’t write “upwards of 1.5gr per pound”. he wrote that as the MOST he would recommend. You wrote that this guy needed at least 200gr as if he won’t grow unless his main concern is protein. The two are not the same.

You are the one who posted the quote. Why try to change it now? This guy’s main focus should not be on protein. If he is eating enough calories, that will be covered unless he is eating pure junk at 130lbs.[/quote]

Oh my god.
Lying? You’ve gotta be kidding me.

Gee, you’re right X, Cy didn’t say “upwards”.
Lonnie did.
Lonnie: “Having said that, I think there are real body composition advantages to eating upwards of 1.5 g/ lb. That’s right, overfeed protein!”

Try reading next time before accusing someone.

Can’t believe you’re whining over a word anyway.
Hysterical.

Anyway.
I don’t agree that if he is simply “eating enough calories” that means he’ll magically get everything he needs.
His focus should be overall nutrient balance.
I would base this on what experts suggest for a hard gainer. And most would suggest a higher level of protein than normal.

[mike08042]

[quote]sven33 wrote:
You will gain weight, and the more you weigh the more muscle you can obtain by training hard.

And you say you dont just want to gain or lose weight? That makes no sense, this kid weighs 130??? what you think he wants to slowly add mass? I dont know about anyone else but if I was 130 I would be packing on the weight, he obviously has a ways to go before deciding that he should eat extremely clean while he has 3% BF. If you want to gain a good amount of weight you will gain fat, its a no brainer.

Heavy does not equal muscular.
There are plenty of big, heavy people out there that have a very low percentage of muscle, and it’s not just because they are not lifting weights.
Nutrient selection and timing is a big factor.

I said i don’t want to just gain or lose weight.
What i mean by this is “weight” does not indicate body composition. The ideal is to make most of your gains muscle.

Yes, in bulking you will put on fat, but it doesn’t have to be a lot. You accomplish that by THINKING and then eating.[/quote]

Nutrient selection and timing? are you crazy? this kid weighs 130 and you think it needs to involve nutrient selection and timing? all it involves is sticking food in his mouth. If you are 130 lbs, or 250 lbs who will be able to get more muscle mass? 250 lbs of shit can train and get more definition and stronger more than a 130 lb guy could. Make most of your gains in muscle?

Its alot easier to gain weight and than switch to a healthier diet and lose the fat, because he will retain more muscle. He needs to eat more and train thats it, at this point there is no need to make it any more complicated, its actually simple.

[sven33]

[quote]mike08042 wrote:
I didnt say to eat totally junk, all I mean is alot of carbs alot of fats and alot of protein. I never said eating 4 big macs a day was healthy, but it is calories, and if i weighed 130lbs i would be drinking a 12 pack of beer everyday, i wish i could do that now… simply burgers, steak, whole grain breads. there are you happy now? better make sure its all extra lean because you wouldnt want the poor guy with 3.3% BF to get fat… [/quote]

right, all i’m saying is calories for the sake of calories is not necessarily going to get him what he wants. it might make the scale move, but that’s meaningless when we’re talking body composition.

completely agree with you that he has a lot more wiggle room at that weight and metabolism (hell, i’d be drinking beer and eating pizza a lot more too).

Just didn’t agree on the “calorie is a calorie” thing.

[sven33]

[quote] Nutrient selection and timing? are you crazy? this kid weighs 130 and you think it needs to involve nutrient selection and timing? all it involves is sticking food in his mouth. If you are 130 lbs, or 250 lbs who will be able to get more muscle mass? 250 lbs of shit can train and get more definition and stronger more than a 130 lb guy could. Make most of your gains in muscle?

Its alot easier to gain weight and than switch to a healthier diet and lose the fat, because he will retain more muscle. He needs to eat more and train thats it, at this point there is no need to make it any more complicated, its actually simple. [/quote]

Hmm. So then you ARE saying that it doesn’t matter what he eats or where the calories come from or when he eats it.
Cool.

Whatever.

I guess he just needs to eat lots of candy right before bed. “Muscles, here i come!”

[Magarhe]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
It is NOT a one-egg omelette, it is one egg AND 3oz of egg whites.

Dude, were you born premature?? (this is a serious question). Quite a few people who were born premature have undeveloped fat tissue - basically, almost impossible to get fat.

Undeveloped fat tissue? [/quote]

premature babies have underdeveloped brown adipose tissue at birth, it develops during the last weeks of pregnancy. This disadvantage goes with them throughout their life. However I think you have to be quite premature, not just a few weeks. I’ve known people who were, and they simply could not get fat. Could build muscle though, one was an athlete. But it carries complications throughout your life. If this guy was born premature it could account for his condition. He IS eating a lot of calories considering his weight, but he is also very, very active as well. I’d like to rule out anything physiologically wrong with him before jumping to any conclusions … because it is quite weird.

Alternatively, up the calories and if that doesn’t work then get to a doctor.

Also, if he ever was fatter than now, then disregard my theories. Because if premature he would never have been fat, ever.

Note also the preemie models out there who are thin as can be and never put on fat help push unrealistic aims on ordinary people. In the old days, all preemies just died. And people respected a bit of heft to a person, especially when really skinny people just plain died of colds and flu. But these days everyone survives - even really premature babies - but people don’t take into account these things.

Again, does anyone know ANYONE who has succeeded in gaining weight, who was born premature? Anyone reading this? My guess would be no, or rare, but who knows.