T Nation

Need More Calories??

I have been trying to diet down for the last few weeks, aiming for 2100 kcal to try to drop some bodyfat. According to my calipers I started around 17.5% two weeks ago.

Just did another measure and got the same thing. I have been taking HOT-ROX 3 caps 2x per day and doing a lot more sprint work lately.

Are my calories too low? Should I bump them up a bit in an attempt to kick start the fat loss?

Yes-I think they’re probably a little low unless you are pretty short.

i’m 5’5".
I did the calculation based on the don’t diet in that old article from Berardi, but some of his more recent articles and calculators seem to recommend higher intake.

[quote]PharmD Pete wrote:
i’m 5’5".
I did the calculation based on the don’t diet in that old article from Berardi, but some of his more recent articles and calculators seem to recommend higher intake.[/quote]

Hmm. Bodyweight? Lean mass? Well it might not excessively low for you, but it could be a good idea to bump it up to 2200 or 2300 and see what happens. You’re in a plateau as it is, so you have nothing to lose.

Remember what Berardi says in the 7 habits article - it’s not necessarily the amount of calories or protein, but where they come from ie. their quality.`Check out that article,“lean eatin”, “Berardi’s Kitchen” and the “foods that make you look good nakkid” one by the editors.

As for working out, check out Tabata Method. And I also found that upping your number of weekly sessions helps very well with shedding the pounds.

You could also try rotating your carbohydrate and fat intake (which is what I have been doing lately). So far it “appears” to work in terms of not gaining fat while trying to gain muscle. I can only assume that with a slightly lower caloric intake it could work well for fat loss since you are doing sprints.

I remember before when I did an 8 week renegade training program (the one coach davies gave out a looooooong time ago) I dropped fat while increasing my caloric intake. Also, I did not separate my meals into P+C and P+F except for breakfast and before bedtime.

Just my thoughts.

-ton

[quote]TestosterTon wrote:
You could also try rotating your carbohydrate and fat intake (which is what I have been doing lately). So far it “appears” to work in terms of not gaining fat while trying to gain muscle. I can only assume that with a slightly lower caloric intake it could work well for fat loss since you are doing sprints.

I remember before when I did an 8 week renegade training program (the one coach davies gave out a looooooong time ago) I dropped fat while increasing my caloric intake. Also, I did not separate my meals into P+C and P+F except for breakfast and before bedtime.

Just my thoughts.

-ton[/quote]

Could you expand on this? I am not familar with the rotating carbs and fat. How does it work?

Also what sort of macro breakdown should i be using? Like i said i’ve been shooting for 2100 kcal with:

215 P-41%
150 C-29%
70 F-30%

I like the tabata idea. I hadn’t thought of that in a while. I am doing CW’s NB3 right now which is only 2 X per week with 3 days of sprinting. Maybe i could sub one day of tabata in there instead.

[quote]PharmD Pete wrote:
TestosterTon wrote:
You could also try rotating your carbohydrate and fat intake (which is what I have been doing lately). So far it “appears” to work in terms of not gaining fat while trying to gain muscle. I can only assume that with a slightly lower caloric intake it could work well for fat loss since you are doing sprints.

I remember before when I did an 8 week renegade training program (the one coach davies gave out a looooooong time ago) I dropped fat while increasing my caloric intake. Also, I did not separate my meals into P+C and P+F except for breakfast and before bedtime.

Just my thoughts.

-ton

Could you expand on this? I am not familar with the rotating carbs and fat. How does it work?[/quote]

Well basically what I’ve done lately is have alot of carbohydrates on my workout days, and on one off day a “moderate” amount of carbohydrates (which is relative) or a low amount and very high fat. It’s kind of a blend of Dr. Berardi’s massive eating principles and Coach Thibaudeau’s carb rotation (well at least it was in his articles that I read about it first).

Let me try to give you an example. Right now I’m doing ABBH 1. So the workouts are every other day (odd numbered days).

On the days I workout, I’ll take in 400+ grams of carbs, 250+ grams of protein, and maybe around 50-75g of fat. On these days, I basically make the above nutrient breakdown a minimum. I’ll snack on chicken breasts, fruit and veggies throughout the day, but I try to keep the fat intake to around 50g.

On the off days, which comes out to every even numbered day, I’ll take in a maximum range of 100-200g of carbs. But the fat intake goes way up close to 250g and sometimes more. On these days my snacks are eggs, almonds (or any nuts), beef, etc. Protein is still 250+.

I recently started doing this just to experiment. So far I am comfortable with it. I just eat a minimum amount of food (that I have written down) and depending on the day I can snack all I want with either carbs or fats (with pro of course.)

I know your goals are to cut fat, with are opposite of my goals, but perhaps taking the above and dropping the calories to suit your needs, as well as eliminating the snacks, could help.

I hope it made sense and if not just ask and I’ll try to clarify.

Take care.

-ton

Try decreasing the carbs and increasing the protein and fats. I also like jsbrook’s idea about increasing your caloric intake to about 2300 calories. Think about trying this breakdown:
Carbs: 100
Protein: 250
Fats: 100

Then on a Saturday or Sunday really let it rip with the carbs. I did something like this when cutting this past spring and took my bodyfat down from about 14% to under 9% while putting on a little muscle. If you want further details about my diet and training during this, PM me.

Best of Luck,
Zac

I don’t know what your calorie intake was before you started “dieting”, but I don’t recommend dropping more that 50-100 calories per day at a time. Do this every three to four weeks. A sudden drop in calories may lead to more fat storage. HOT-ROX takes several months to see results. Give it some time. Good luck.

[quote]zed962 wrote:
Try decreasing the carbs and increasing the protein and fats. I also like jsbrook’s idea about increasing your caloric intake to about 2300 calories. Think about trying this breakdown:
Carbs: 100
Protein: 250
Fats: 100

Then on a Saturday or Sunday really let it rip with the carbs. I did something like this when cutting this past spring and took my bodyfat down from about 14% to under 9% while putting on a little muscle. If you want further details about my diet and training during this, PM me.

Best of Luck,
Zac[/quote]

This is very similar to what I’m doing myself right now. I’m 5’7, 180. I estimate about 12%. Came down from a high of 188.5 and gained 1-2 lbs of muscle in the process. I want to lean out to 9%. Do Waterbury’s SFM while maintaining weight. And then bulk until I hit 15%. I believe that leaning out and maintaining strength and size is entirely possible and even gaining muscle is possible if training is hard and the caloric deficit is moderate. I’ve had some success with this.

But I’m bigger and and a more experienced lifter now, so I don’t know if it will work as well this time. But I think you should have some very good results in terms of body composition following Zac’s suggestions.

[quote]TestosterTon wrote:

Well basically what I’ve done lately is have alot of carbohydrates on my workout days, and on one off day a “moderate” amount of carbohydrates (which is relative) or a low amount and very high fat. It’s kind of a blend of Dr. Berardi’s massive eating principles and Coach Thibaudeau’s carb rotation (well at least it was in his articles that I read about it first).

Let me try to give you an example. Right now I’m doing ABBH 1. So the workouts are every other day (odd numbered days).

On the days I workout, I’ll take in 400+ grams of carbs, 250+ grams of protein, and maybe around 50-75g of fat. On these days, I basically make the above nutrient breakdown a minimum. I’ll snack on chicken breasts, fruit and veggies throughout the day, but I try to keep the fat intake to around 50g.

On the off days, which comes out to every even numbered day, I’ll take in a maximum range of 100-200g of carbs. But the fat intake goes way up close to 250g and sometimes more. On these days my snacks are eggs, almonds (or any nuts), beef, etc. Protein is still 250+.

I recently started doing this just to experiment. So far I am comfortable with it. I just eat a minimum amount of food (that I have written down) and depending on the day I can snack all I want with either carbs or fats (with pro of course.)

I know your goals are to cut fat, with are opposite of my goals, but perhaps taking the above and dropping the calories to suit your needs, as well as eliminating the snacks, could help.

I hope it made sense and if not just ask and I’ll try to clarify.

Take care.

-ton[/quote]

Did you type in the fat grams right for your non training days? Why would you want to take in 1000 more cals on non training days? I know your not saying your doing straight carb cycling but I’m really curious to your reasoning here.

To over simplify carb cycling you increase your carb/calorie intake on your toughest training days and reduce carbs/calories on non workout/lighter days. Carb cycling uses carbs as the ballest for calorie control with protien/fat normally staying fairly static.

[quote]JNeves wrote:
TestosterTon wrote:

Well basically what I’ve done lately is have alot of carbohydrates on my workout days, and on one off day a “moderate” amount of carbohydrates (which is relative) or a low amount and very high fat. It’s kind of a blend of Dr. Berardi’s massive eating principles and Coach Thibaudeau’s carb rotation (well at least it was in his articles that I read about it first).

Let me try to give you an example. Right now I’m doing ABBH 1. So the workouts are every other day (odd numbered days).

On the days I workout, I’ll take in 400+ grams of carbs, 250+ grams of protein, and maybe around 50-75g of fat. On these days, I basically make the above nutrient breakdown a minimum. I’ll snack on chicken breasts, fruit and veggies throughout the day, but I try to keep the fat intake to around 50g.

On the off days, which comes out to every even numbered day, I’ll take in a maximum range of 100-200g of carbs. But the fat intake goes way up close to 250g and sometimes more. On these days my snacks are eggs, almonds (or any nuts), beef, etc. Protein is still 250+.

I recently started doing this just to experiment. So far I am comfortable with it. I just eat a minimum amount of food (that I have written down) and depending on the day I can snack all I want with either carbs or fats (with pro of course.)

I know your goals are to cut fat, with are opposite of my goals, but perhaps taking the above and dropping the calories to suit your needs, as well as eliminating the snacks, could help.

I hope it made sense and if not just ask and I’ll try to clarify.

Take care.

-ton

Did you type in the fat grams right for your non training days? Why would you want to take in 1000 more cals on non training days? I know your not saying your doing straight carb cycling but I’m really curious to your reasoning here.

To over simplify carb cycling you increase your carb/calorie intake on your toughest training days and reduce carbs/calories on non workout/lighter days. Carb cycling uses carbs as the ballest for calorie control with protien/fat normally staying fairly static.
[/quote]

Yes I see what you mean. I’m just experimenting to see what results I get with it. So basically, I 1.) try to maintain a minimum calorie requirement, 2.) cycle the carbohydrates daily, 3.) (on the non-training days where the carbohydrate amount is lower thus lower calories) I try to make up for the “missing” calories through fat intake (thus increasing my fat intake).

Also the numbers I gave out were just random. I don’t want to hijack this thread, so if you want I can start a new one or we can just PM one another.

Take Care.

-ton