T Nation

Need Help with TRT and PCT


#1


I've been lurking on different threads for a while now but it's now come a time where I'm at loss and really need your help. I'm gonna give you a little sob story to go with this to give you better understanding what I need help with.

Currently I'm 34 years old. About 7 years back I went through a bad break up. The timing of it was probably a huge contributor as to how it effected me as at the same time my job went to crap (i'm in realestate lending and was the first one to take a hit when the market collapsed ), I lost my home and had a family burden as my moms cancer came back.

All this devastated me and really got me depressed. I went on a bender partying and drinking and neglecting my job even further. My health got bad and I gained weight as I stopped exercising and started smoking weed to cope. My sex drive got bad and I went from being Rocco to having to force myself to think about sex and overall feeling crappy and feeling like grieving. Got to the point where I'd have to smoke to get it up.

Lucky for me about 6 months later I met a great supportive girl with whom I've been ever since (althou it took me a long time to get over my ex- not really just her but the feeling of hatered as to how I got played). I' ve kept smoking weed and sort of just coasted through life without haveing any drive, having low self esteem,
and feeling sorry for myself.

I tried geting back into the gym, but every time I'd go and do a solid workout I'd feel physically sick and would get flu like symptoms. I'd also have to force myself to just stay at the gym and not leave in 5 minutes. I'd gain no muscle what so ever. I also started to get comatose sleepy after carbs and being sensitive to gluten.

I started researching symptoms and came across a thread on this forum where low T was the culprit so I finally went to a primary care doc and got tested. (This was about a year ago). At the same time I got my girl preagnant.

Sure enough my testosterone came in at 302 in a 280-1100 range. My cholesterol results were also sky high! See attached. The doc referred me to a urologist and this guy right away put me on testopel. 12 pellets every 4 months. At that point I was 225lbs with about 34% BF.

I hit the gym pretty hard. Going 5 days a week. Not doing any cardio but just lifting. In 8 weeks my test level went up to 680. I had no more flu symptoms and would recover in a day to two tops per muscle group with minimal soreness. My mood improved slightly, sex drive actually got worse, my balls shrunk a bit and I'd barely have any cumshot, but I pressed on and kept going to the gym as my main goal was to address the cholesterol and maybe hope my head gets fixed. So a year later, I'm still 220lbs but with 24% BF. My cholesterol results came in about 100 points lower all across the bad parts, good cholesterol went up slightly but not by much.

Well I was due for a refil of testopell a month ago, but it turns out my insurance changed their policy and would only pay for 6 pellets. This would put me where I was without TRT. After talking to my doc and in about a year wanting another kid we decided to see if I can get my balls working again so he put me on Clomid 50mg EOD. The first 3 weeks I started feeling great. Sex finally started feeling like it should. Rock hard erections, good orgasms and finallly some decent cumshots.

Now the 4th week this all flatlined. I'm feeling like crap, no drive, mood swings, my digestive problems are back, I got weaker and seems like i'm gaining body-fat which all seems to be going into my gut and chest. I also feel nauseous at times. I'm a bit freaked out that I'm gonna end up with a gyno.

What am I supposed to do with this? I'm due to check my test levels jn a week so maybe this will shine some light as to what's going on but I'm totally freaked out.

Has anyone gotten off TRT and successfully returned to normal?

I'm thinking that I probably still had some of the pellets left over when I started Clomid and now they run out but it's just a shot in the dark.


#2

It is hard to say without testing.

A lot of guys feel good on Clomid initially and then it goes south after a month or so. It may have to do with the long half life of Clomid, meaning that the drug keeps building up to higher and higher levels in the body before stabilizing after about 6 weeks or so. In other words, it is possible that the first month you felt good because you had lower levels of Clomid in your body at the time. You could test this by stopping Clomid for a week or so to let the drug start washing out and then resume Clomid at a lower dose, e.g., half of what you are taking now. Some respected doctors who use Clomid for TRT only prescribe 12.5 mg per day as a starting dose (to be adjusted up or down), which is half of what your dose is.


#3

Too much clomid. LH levels were probably too high and LH receptors in the testes can become desensitized. Use a smaller dose.

Some feel crappy on clomid and I suggest nolvadex which does not do that. But your history suggests that you were not affected by this affect.

If T levels have dropped, you can inject T [cheap] and do clomid which will preserve/restore fertility.

You need to test TT, FT and E2 and manage E2 with anastrozole to get near E2=22pg/ml. That will allow for weight loss. You can’t loose weight if your thyroid function is low. If thyroid function is low because of a simple iodine deficiency, you can fix that. You are iodine deficient if you don’t have a long term history of using iodized salt.

Mitochondria in your cells burn fats and lipids, but need fT3 [thyroid hormone] which regulates their activity and that is also how the body regulates your overall metabolism and body temperature. If your body temperatures are low, its most likely because not enough fT3 is getting into your cells, because fT3 is low or rT3 blocks it at the T3 receptors in the cell walls.

Adrenal fatigue is caused by stress and major stress events, some external and some life style imposed. Cortisol levels can be low and fT3 becomes elevated and then you are a mess.

So its all a lot bigger than your T levels. To loose weight, you need higher T levels, lower E2 levels, decent cortisol levels and good thyroid levels.

So you were put on testopel: did they first test LH/FSH to try to find out why T was low?

You will feel better with this and the costs are low:

  • self inject 50mg T cypionate twice a week [100mg/total]
  • take 1/2mg anastrozole [oral] at time of injection
  • 12.5mg clomid every other day
    – later test LH/FSH do see what that dose is doing.

Do these labs:
TSH
fT3
fT4
rT3

I don’t think that you can recover your metabolism and loose weight by doing a restart.

Please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys
  • thyroid basics
    – check body temperatures and report long term use of iodized salt

#4

I did get tested by my PCP for TSH and the levels were normal. Because of that he didn’t want to test for t3, t4 or t3r even thou I asked.

I was trying to cut up using t3 but the only thing that it did to me was slow my heart rate down. When my friend took it it made him extremely hyper.

Where do you guys go to get your bloodwork done if you don’t want to go through your doc or insiurance? I’d like to get all of these tests done without having to sell my kidney to afford it.


#5

I finally got my results for the total testosterone. My urologist wouldn’t test for anything else even thou I asked.
My total test is :539. This is on 50 EOD clomid

My two previous tests while on testopel were 581 and 720.

Since about a week ago I reduced the dose to 25 eod. Haven’t really felt much difference other than the fact that I feel less nauseous. I seem to get better erections in the morning, but don’t really have the feeling of desire and pretty much have to force myself to want sex.


#6

You are too passive. Post your TSH lab results and don’t overlook my comments re iodine and body temperatures.

You can do labs on your own and pay out-of-pocket