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Need Help with Test P/Tren A Cycle

Hey everyone,

I have ran about 5 cycles before, learned my lesson from the first one in regards to listening to broScience BS and not doing my own research. The latter 4 cycles were super successful since I did my research and have asked questions with brings me to my current dilemma of wondering how exactly to run a Tren A cycle … now, I have done a lot of research online but there is a huge variety in opinion out there about Tren.

It seems to me that most individuals are suggesting to run Tren A with Test P since they are both short Esther’s and my confusion is whether to pin Tren ED or EOD… I am planning on starting with either 35mg ED or 50MG EOD. And from the information I’ve collected, most people seem to think 100mg EOD Test P is adequate for that Tren dosage along with .5mg arimidex EOD and a standard 50/50/25/25 clomid and 40/40/20/20 nolva PCT. Oh and a standard HCG during cycle (I know HCG on cycle/off cycle is a contraversial subject but based on my research running it some weeks into your cycle makes a lot more sense then it does post cycle). So what do you guys think? Any tweaks to this standard protocol/any additions? I just want to make sure I get it right and have everything I need before I start this.

One last thing, I have caber on deck just in case but I see some controversy with caber as well… some people say run .25 to start towards the end of your cycle, others say run .5 and some say it might not be necessary at all and to get your prolactin levels checked first but I don’t know too much about this if there is anyone who can explain the effective caber process more? Thanks in advance

I’m responding from knowledge of pharma only and not experience. I have never run Tren nor plan to.

Yes both short esters are good. Either dose you choose is not high enough in my opinion to merit the use of caber. I’m told that Tren Ace is best pinned ED. Pin your test and tren at the same time of course as they’re both short esters. Now on to the AI. Tren doesnt aromatize so you base you’re AI needs off the test. IMO you don’t need an AI on your suggested test dose but if you did run it then you would start on way less than proposed.

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Thanks man. I am sensitive to estrogen aromatization as far as gyno, acne and water retention. Not so much hair loss or mood swings on any of the shit I’ve ran/stacked but I do think maybe 0.5mg arimidex twice a week is necessary. Even though I’m prone, do you still believe it is unnecessary? And also, if I’m running a test P cycle, should I up it from 100 EOD to 100ED with tren? And if hypothetically I decided not to run the tren and decided to go with a test P/winny cycle, would you suggest I up the Test P to 150 EOD? keep in mind I am trying to cut, I don’t like being too big. I’m currently at 170/ 5’11"/ 26YO. And thanks again, I always appreciate the advice

First, 0.5 mgs of arimidex EOD is a total of 1.75mg per week on 350mgs of test propionate…do you know from experience that you have estrogen/aromatase issues? That is a huge dose for twice that amount of test. Realistically at 350mgs of test per week you shouldn’t need any arimidex. If you do I would start at like 0.25 mgs twice a week and even then I think that sounds high. Just for clarification, I don’t think you would NEED any arimidex at that dose but if you run into some issue or if you have had significant issues in the past, then the 0.25mgs twice a week would be what I would think is a good starting point. Keep in mind 350mgs of test prop acts differently than 350mgs of test enanthate. I can personally go up to 100mgs a day of prop with no AI but if I do that same dose in enanthate, I will need some AI to keep the bloat/water retention down.

As for tren, I assume this is your first dance so there is going to be some learning involved. Of course taking a small dose everyday will keep your levels more stable vs a higher dose EOD but I doubt you are at the level of NEEDING to pin everyday just to try and get that extra 1/2 pound or so of lean mass you might get from ED injections.
With tren ace there is actually a (I forget which) dopamine or endorphin release as a side effect from some part of the hormones action. So guys actually get a “high” from it and we regularly see those with addictive personalities going and very quickly switching to ED injections and very shortly afterwards increasing those doses. Just be aware of that, please. There is some release with tren enanthate but it isn’t as significant compared to the acetates release.

I think that you should just start with EOD injections of the tren. If you notice that your mood stability is unstable then try the lower dose ED. That is just my opinion/input from what I can gather from your post.

As for the caber, again this is relative to you and your body. If you have it on hand then you are “safe” in the sense that if something happens you can immediately do something about it. As far as if you NEED it, you will only know that after you have been taking the tren. Do you have any deca or NPP experience? Some guys only react to tren, some only to the nandrolone (deca/NPP), some to both and of course there are those assholes who can do whatever they want while dosing in the multiple grams per week and never take any ancillary support or PCT and somehow never have any issues.

I am not 100% sure what you were saying or meaning about HCG. I will say that if you are planning on cycling then PCT followed by a PROPER recovery period, then HCG is a good thing to have in the mix. Keep in mind that even though all AAS’s are suppressive there are some that are “more” suppressive, like tren and deca. Yet again some guys never have any issues period but then some of us look at a vial of tren and get leaky nipples. If you can afford it then yeah use it up to but NOT overlapping with PCT. In basic super simple explanation, we preform PCT to get our bodies to produce our own “HCG.” So using it during PCT is counter productive. You can use it up to the start of HCG and really that is a good way to plan it, just don’t overlap it.

I think if I understand your plan it is something like this;
100mgs test prop EOD or a total of 350mgs per week,
50mgs of tren ace EOD or a total of 175mgs per week.
Like I said I personally don’t think you will need any arimidex unless you have prior issues.
At those doses you should have a very nice cycle. It’s all reasonable dosing and thought out in regards to your first tren dance. If you have some weird emotional rollercoaster, then switching to 25mgs of tren per day is a possible route to explore but I doubt you will need to do that. Really if you have some crazy reaction to the 50mgs EOD then you just might need to stay away from tren period.

All that said I do think using tren on cycle number five is pretty early in your cycle history but no one listens to the voice of experience until they find out for themselves. I will also say, I noticed you did not include your age…are you absolutely sure you should be doing this? There are lots of lovely compounds out there and so many different ways to mix them.

Not trying to flame you, but IMO, this is over kill for your size. Honestly, I think it is a bit small for a first cycle. I would encourage you to see what can be accomplished with diet and training, and if you must use test and the oral. Just my opinion.

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Hey man, thanks for the input. I did mean to put E3D 0.5MG for the arimidex which would be twice a week but I can agree that I should start with 0.25mg and work my way up. Yes, I am prone to puffy nipples and water retention along with some chest/back acne. Because I am sensitive to gyno, I try to avoid deca. I have heard guys sensitive to gyno should not take deca so I’ve had a fear of trying it although I did hear that it was the shit.

That’s good to know about the secretion of dopamine, I’m 7 years clean from heroin and any drug so that is awesome advice man. I have not read that at all on any thread so far.

Can you do me a favor and give a suggested cycle besides the tren cycle I mentioned; as in what is your favorite cycle?

I’m a boxer, I’m just trying to stay cut and lean vs large and bulky haha. But I appreciate your input.

Can you do me a favor and give a suggested cycle besides the tren cycle I mentioned; as in what is your favorite cycle?

Well, I’m on my second only. I wouldn’t suggest tren based on cardio impacts for a boxer.

Where are you body fat wise? Test and anavar would be great for athletics. You could use tbol as it is good for athletics (it seems mma fighters get busted for tbol a lot). Winny isn’t something I would use because it can be hard on joints. Not something I want as a power lifter, and I don’t think a boxer would enjoy sore joints. Just my opinion.

Winny is hit and miss honestly man, I’ve run winny with awesome strength gains and it didn’t dry me out and then I’ve ran winny with awesome strength gains while it dried me the fuck out too so I think it may depend on when you implement and how long you run. I’ve never been drug tested with USA boxing so idk, bit I do know tbol stays in your system forever and I’ve tried it and it wasn’t my fav. I’m at 7% BF rn. Anavar is dope just expensive and hard to find bit I do love anavar. Anavar and Ostarine with test is an awesome combo.

Well, first come the questions. What are you wanting to do, build, cut, bust through some strength plateau, just do some sort of body physique tune up as you age?
Second are you wanting to stick with a shorter cycle or are you willing to run something longer?
Finally give us a run through of what you have used so far and how it seemed to agree with you.

Sorry I didn’t read all the other comments.

Since you are a boxer, I assume you are not wanting to jump a weight class, or maybe you are.

Masteron is a good aggression enhancer during workouts, or it can be. You can get strength without a lot of weight increase.

Equipoise, depending on how disciplined you are this can be an amazing endurance enhancer. It makes you produce more red blood cells so you have more oxygen available. You can run it where you gain or run it for a cut, that’s diet depending. Truly a dual purpose compound. Only thing is the ester is Soo long that running it for less than 12 weeks is not really getting the most out of it. 15 weeks can be a great time frame for it.

Tbol, there is a reason the east germans used it in their olympic program for DECADES. I don’t think it is any more detectable vs any other oral but I could be wrong. Admittedly I don’t worry about detection times. Tbol is test based and dry so no estrogen spikes from it.

Clostebol, I see more and more mma fighters getting caught for this. It’s basically injectable tbol but with an ester attached (from what I understand but i have seen it listed as a DHt based compound which tbol is test based so there is some contradictory info out there), which makes it behave differently. It’s a good strength and conditioning compound.

You could think about trying NPP, it is the same hormone as deca but with a much faster ester. I know you say you have estrogen issues but usually when you take a given hormone and attach it to a shorter ester then for some unexplained reason the estrogen issues don’t happen, just look at test prop vs enanthate.

Really it comes down to are you just wanting strength increases and try to stay within a weight range? If so then just stick with dry compounds like masteron, tbol, and you could think about equipoise even though it does aromatize (it just aromatizes at a much lower rate).

If you can find it there is this stuff called DHB/dihydroboldenon/1-test. Basically testosterone gets reduced into dihydrotestosterone and equipoise gets reduced into dihydroboldenon. It’s a good dry gainer.

All in all for endurance enhancement it’s equipoise and tbol
For strength enhancement it is masteron, clostebol, tbol, anavar, equipoise (diet and training depending)
For size it is, equipoise (depending) NPP, dbol, anadrol (also good for strength but you are going to carry some serious water)

As far as winstrol goes, yeah olympic runners used it but like you said, sometimes the joints hurt and sometimes not.

Honestly if they had regularly available equipoise but with a much shorter ester, I would say try that but they don’t so.

It comes down to what you can get your hands on that is a quality product and what can you afford? All the shitty anavar in the world isn’t going to help you, it will just drain your wallet. But legit anavar at a reasonable price is a different story.

I would suggest started with half that. Quarter the tabs assuming they are standard 1mg and try .25mg 2x per week.

If it were my I would pin barely above a TRT dose and let the tren do the work. Certainly not 100mg ED. Something like 30-40mg/day.

You said you don’t want to gain mass so I wouldn’t keep the test high. Winny is going to be bad for your boxing goals as the punches combined with joint pain are a shitty combo.

So for this upcoming cycle, I am trying to build strength while cutting some additional body fat and maintaining stamina so I can see now how tren would be a very bad choice for this because I forgot about the increase in LDL and decrease in HDL extremes when I made this post. I am deff willing to run a longer cycle.

So far, I have used test E by itself

I have stacked 500 mg/wk test E with anavar 75mg/day for this first 8 weeks and winny 50mg/day for 6 weeks

I have done a test P 100mg EOD with 50mg/day winny for 10 weeks, starting the Winny week 4 to 10 and stacking with RAD140 and Ostarine SARMS

I tried to run a TEST E 500mg/wk 10 wk cycle with RAD140, Ostarine and S4 and had surprisingly great gains although I don’t like the sides of S4 and this cycle gave me anxiety as well. I believe that is because I mixed so many different chems together. I’m capable of figuring out why by doing extensive scientific research but I honestly just don’t feel like doing that because I don’t think ill run that stack again unless I cut out the S4.

And I have done Test E 600mg/wk for 12 weeks with Tbol week 5 to 12 but I forgot the Tbol dose because it was a while ago, maybe 40/50mg/day… also, I notice that running winny in the back end of my cycles usually keeps the joint pain low/eliminates it for me usually.

Wow, that’s all awesome info man. Thank you for taking the time to type all of that out, I really appreciate it. I’m thinking of maybe doing a 12 wk cycle now with Test E 500mg/wk and Masteron 400mg/wk (increasing to 500/wk potentially after I feel it out if I think I want to), Clenbuterol at 40/60mg/day (obviously cycling it two weeks on and two weeks off) for weeks 1 to 8 and anavar @ between 50mg-75mg/day (probably starting at 50 and gradually increasing) from week 4 to 12 taking 0.25mg adex twice a week (increasing to 0.5mg if I need it). PCT protocol starting week 14 with 40/40/20/20 nolva and 50/50/25/25 clomid. What do you think about that?

Be extra careful with the AI and Mast. Mast has an anti E effect. I don’t know if it actually reduces it, or binds with the same receptors blocking it out or something like that.

Check out this video, Dr Rand says you need it.

I am not saying some won’t need an AI if their Test is high enough even if using Mast, just that for most they don’t need it on reasonable does of each.

I have watched his videos in the past and he offers a perspective. I would say get a few perspectives. The Anabolic Doc is pretty good, but he doesn’t get into nuts and bolts and keeps things general. More Plates More Dates is pretty good too, but I do see some errors in his work (same with Rand and Anabolic Doc). These are pretty good sources, but this stuff is individual too.

I would be wary of specific protocols for everyone that include an AI. I am just fine on 600 mg of test with no AI. My TRT doc tried to give me AIs for 150 mg/wk, and I ended up testing low (I didn’t crash, but was close). I was on .25 mg a week of adex too. That isn’t very high.

I’m getting confused as to how to properly take an AI to more and more I discuss it with others lol… I’ve taken 1mg of arimidex EOD before and didn’t feel like I was crashing but I guess it depends on a lot of factors individually.

You won’t necessarily feel it right away. It is individual on how long it will take to notice crashed E2, and 1 mg won’t necessarily crash it.

Now, we can have different positions on how to use an AI. I am of the opinion that one should only use one if needed. A few reasons why:

  1. You don’t know the quality of the test you are using. It might be under dosed or completely fake and you wouldn’t really know. If you start with an AI off the bat, you will almost for sure crash E2 in this situation.

  2. AIs reduce E2. E2 is cardio protective. High E2 levels lead to higher HGH and IGF-1 levels.

  3. Even with properly dosed Test and AI, many more crash their E2 than get high E2 symptoms. This has been getting better as many are rethinking AI usage.

Now if you are worried about gyno, you could dose Nolva at like 10 mg EOD during your cycle. Nolva will block E2 in the breast tissue that turns to gyno. I prefer that method over AI use. I think waiting until you have a good idea that you are going to get sides soon is a good time to start using an AI or Nolva.

Just some things to think about.

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Ok, ok so I know everyone asks the popular question of what should my dose of AI be and everyone has a different answer and I think this is cycle dependent maybe? Or dependent on your body and how it responds to anabolic steroids?

How do you know how much to take precisely (arimidex in this case)? Do you start with 0.25 EOD, 0.5 EOD, 1MG EOD? and then go get labs to see where your estrogen is at to tweak your dose? And if so, my question is what is the safest level to start at? And is it cycle dependent? Sorry, I know I probably .repeated myself a couple times.

I’m planning on running 12 week cycle of Test E @500mg/wk and Masteron @400mg/wk with clean 40/60 mg/day week 1 to 8 (cycling obviously two weeks on and two weeks off) and anavar between 50-75mg/day from week 4 to 12. I have had some estrogen issues in the past including acne on my back and chest although I think that one is pretty standard for everyone, loss of libido and gyno which I had surgery for ALTHOUGH now I’m thinking I had pre existing gyno and this shit kind of just irritated it because I used to be fat and I had noticed my gyno while I was shredded but during my second cycle. And thinking about it too, the loss of libido was probably from a lack of estrogen meaning too much AI? I have take 1mg of adex EOD and also 0.5 EOD I just don’t know how to tweak it.

Anyways, I could use some advice

So if you are going to take it, start low and titrate up. Ideally this is done while getting blood work frequently to evaluate the results of each dose change. It can be difficult to tell the difference between high and low E2, which is why blood work is important.

Additionally, you could try titrating up your Testosterone if you are worried about it. Start at 300 mg for 5 weeks. Don’t use an AI, almost nobody needs an AI at that dose that isn’t very obese or has a rare genetic condition. If all good, try 400 mg for the next 5 weeks. If no sides from high E2, bump up to 500 mg for the remainder.

I know this isn’t ideal, but part of steroid use is finding what works for you. My first cycle was at 325 mg/wk because I was worried about high E2 and gyno. This cycle I started off with 400 mg, and now I am up to 600 mg/wk with no AI.

Additionally, for your goals, maybe just run this cycle all the way through at 300 mg/wk with Mast at 400 mg/wk. You will hold less water on that protocol, but get athletic gains. It is almost a fool proof cycle to run as well. Almost no one will have E2 issues on this. For your next cycle you could then try 400 mg or 500 mg/wk.