T Nation

Need Help with Smooth Switch Between Bulk and Leaning


HI Guyz !!
First of all I’am from Poland, and what i have to say our Polish knowledge about pharama is far beyond your imagination and it’s hard to find some relatively good information about cycling.

I am now at cycle
1-16 cypionate 500mg/week
1-16 eq 600mg/week
9-16 dianabol 30mg

It is 8th week, and i’v just pinned 5000iu of hcg splitted in 3 shots to let balls know they exists.

My point is to not go off after 16th week. Everyone that i’v spoken with said i should go for a brige for bout 4 weeks test e/c 250mg/week.

But here in Poland we are used to do 5000 iu every 8 weeks of cycle. We even don’t use nolva. Most of poeple doesn’t know what is exe…

So i’m willing to ask you about saying sth about my idea.

I want to switch after 16 weeks to
1-9 prop 75mg/eod (small dosage to not block receptors for tren)
1-9 tren a 50mg/eod (and if everythink will be ok i’ll run it ed)

I am the guy who is taking only low dosage, with hard work there are always effect.

This time i would go for about 25 weeks of cycle, which would be the longest in my life so i need sure information what to do to be healthy and don’t mess with fertility, while i’am 25 and i want to have a child.

So there are 2 options.
At 16th week of current cycle pin 5000iu of hcg splitted in 4 shots .Then while Tren blocks more as any others steroid i would ran from week 4 to 9 hcg 250ui e3d plus nolva 20mg ed(while hcg bumps e2) and week after last pin of test and tren run clomid 100/100/100/50… for 24 days and maybe 20mg of nolva if labs show high e2,

What is your opinion about long cycles and especially about unblocking in 100% correct way. What is your opionion about use and dosage of HCG during the cycle.
Should i run a bridge after bulking cycle or run cutting stright after??
I see fucking good results but health goes first for me.


There’s no way to be sure of either your health or your fertility. Certainty is impossible. Also, the longer you run a cycle without coming off, the higher the risks. 25 weeks is a pretty long time. That’s half a year.

4 weeks of PCT is certainly not going to be long enough, first of all. Not after a 25 week cycle. The longer the cycle, the longer recovery will take.

Also, your dosing is way too high on the clomid. Cut the dose in half, or just use nolva only at 20 mg ed. Nolva only is preferred. If you pick the nolva, run it 6 weeks at 20mg ed, then cut the dose in half for the next week, then half again for one more week.


I realize risks but, it is still pretty light dosage cycle. Then what about hcg?
Clomid and nolvdex is pretty good combo for pct. Maybe 4 weeks od clomid and 20 of nolva then just the nolva for last 2 weeks like u said?


25 weeks is far too long for a cycle


Ok then, i am also aware of that. So as the topic says, how to make a good decision? After 16 weeks of cypio and bold, how long should i rest and how you would run the PCT??

I would say
13-18 - run hcg 250 e3d, after last pin of cypio bump it to 500 at finish with first clomind and nolva.
Run 50mg of clomid for 24 days and 20mg of nolva for 24 days??


HCG should be run all the way through a cycle… 250 iu 3x per week.

If you are planning on blasting and cruising then be aware of the risks…

I am currently cruising for the first time and I am loving it!

I would advise you cruise on a low dose test only, for about the same time or longer that you would normally pct for… Ie, dont jump straight onto tren after only a few weeks of a pretty heavy cycle… Let your body feel “ready” again before coming off the small dose of test.

Oh and get yourself an AI to run all the time too.


Bro what i believe is preparing myself for my goals… I am not exacly sure about cruising. I also belive AI is handy only when estradiol is quite high. When it’s just little bit higher that normal it’s something that we want while bulking, isn’t it? Some people has worse issues with e2, some not. I am doing cardio 10x a week 20min on bicycle and my e2 is in norm while i use 500mg cypio/week.

As i said in Poland there is a common idea that hcg should be shoot only in the middle and close to the end of cycle. But what i think it’s better to run in only in the last 4-5 weeks, it should be enough to let egg know that they should work now, and then start pct to squeeze the LH from hypophysis.

Other think is, when you run hcg during the whole cycle that means 16 weeks of 2 different signals for balls. and hcg has an influance at e2, which is higher and then there is approximetly a need for AI or nolva during cycle.

The main idea, what i don’t know from practice is how to maintain the muscle we grow, while cycle, during and after pct. Of course after bulking we want to loose the extra fat, and that is my goal. I may stay at my caloric zero for 2 months and then run tren a and prop + T3 let say.

Is there sth wrong with my way of thinking? Should i really start run hcg now till the end. How to be +/- sure that my pct and calories reduce the muscle lost?


Well, I believe HCG should be ran ALL of cycle so that LH is NEVER shut down fully…

If you start HCG later in a cycle that is even worse than using it for PCT…

Your balls will be shut down from the first injection… Then trying to get LH firing later down the line whilst still on cycle makes no sense to me…

Some people, like Rich Piana preaches on Youtube, think that yes, you should let your bodies natural test shut down on cycle then use HCG for PCT to then focus on recovery…

I and many others still think and have good experience of running it all the way though; this then means come PCT time you will hopefully keep more of your gains due to your natural test being back up.

As for the AI, again, yes you can take your E down to low, but I would rather alter the AI dose to suit rather than risk gyno!

I only memtioned cruising because you seem to want to do many cycles very close together which is pointless and would be better of bridging instead of trying to recover in between… If you plan to come off for the same time you were on cycle, between cycles, then PCT,


Andy, dont get me wrong, i really do apreciate all advises, and it is good that there is some discussion. What i wanted was exteending the cycle, by crusising or not. But i also know that is not the best of the best ideas.
I am more willing to do a good pct and try to find the good way to do best cycles for the future. I also think that hcg may have a good influance while started in day one of cycle.
Still, HCG is just imitating the LH! It means the pituitary gland doesnt produce LH while the test is high even if we inject hcg. HCG makes leydig cells working all the way on cycle, which during pct make it is easier to regulate the steady pulsation of endogenic testosterone while they react well to LH which is throw again from hypophisis thanks to clom or nolva.

That by all meaning born some new ideas. Hcg has strong influance at leydiga cells. Used always during whole cycles may make them to react harder at small dosage of natural lh. That is why some people.believe it is not good idea to run in like that. On the other hand it makes pct way easier when we use it, especially while taking Deca or tren. But like i said. Last 4 weeks of long cycles, running hcg from 250iu e3d for 2weeks then bumping to 500iu/week will make laydiga cells potent again. Stopping hcg in day of pct start and boom lh is on again test is produced we should have no issues with finishing pct after maximum of 24 Days.

Again.is there a logic in it? Sry for gramma.


I know how HCG works lol and I cant quite tell if you are agreeing with me or not haha… sounds kinda like you are agreeing to thunbs up lol.


Naah i am trying to contfront some knowladge at foreign forum. Srsly at Poland ppl are used to think that hcg pinned every 6-8weeks in 5k ui is fine enough and depends on how long and strong cycle is it should be about 5-15k iu during pct. I am reading some serious guyz logs from us and all of them use hcg during the cycle. Well i just wanted to bump with good quality diacussion;)


@AndyJones1992, you don’t seem to understand what HCG is…

HCG mimics LH, it does not raise it.

while taking HCG throughout the cycle is prolly more effective than trying to kickstart it at the end, i don’t know that anybody has really proven it, one way or the other.


I do.

If I have put “raised” instead of “mimics” in one or a few of a million posts I tell newbies how to use HCG and why then oh well…

Anyway, at least you have given the exact same advice as me regarding starting HCG from day 1 of cycle not further down the line… We agree there.