T Nation

Need Help with First Cycle

Pharma
#1

I’m 23 years old, have a solid 4 years of serious training under my belt. My father was a bodybuilder so I’ve had an incredible coach from day 1. I’ve had to learn a lot about nutrition on my own in order to learn what works for me personally. Just recently dove into the anabolic side of things and I’m a bit overwhelmed.

Originally I wanted to do a stack but have come to find out 500mg of test e pinned twice a week seems to be what 90% of people recommend. 12 weeks also seems to be the preferred method but my father was telling me they thought 10 weeks was pushing it (keep in mind this was in the 80’s).

The one part I’m trying to get dialed in is the PCT. Still very confused. I understand it’s a risk taking anabolics so I want to be sure I’m taking every precaution I can take to make sure I don’t mess my hormones up.

What are the proper dosages of clomid and nolvadex for this 12 week cycle? And also hcg seems to be controversial… do I take it all throughout the cycle only, or do I take it only post cycle with the PCT. also what is the best A.I. to keep in case I get side effects. Any feedback is greatly appreciated, thanks for reading.

#2

So I assume you’ve already reached your genetic potential? You’ve done everything possible to reach your goals? At your age, I think its a mistake.

Have you had blood work done to see where your levels are at?

There’s a lot to think about here. Taking anabolics is a big deal. They are nothing to play around with or thinking about taking just because you want to.

I know this isn’t the answer you’re looking for but I see too often guys your age doing it and then regretting it after and having problems, even those that do it right.

Think long and hard about your reasons and why you want this.

#3

The PCT debate has two schools of thought. One says take both, the other says just take one. I don’t know that either of those opinions are wrong, frankly. Clomid seems to have a higher rate of side effects, so I land on the ‘take the road that gets you where you want to go with the fewest potholes’ side of the debate. In my mind that means Nolva dosed 40/40/20/20 over four weeks. But it’s absolutely possible that I’m wrong and that taking both is necessary. You simply do not know how your body will respond to any of this stuff.

Now, for the HCG… I remain mystified that it is used in such a wide variety of ways. In laymen’s terms, it keeps your testicles functioning properly during a cycle. Why someone would avoid that is beyond my understanding, but to each their own. You’re young. You probably won’t destroy your fertility from one cycle. Probably. With a reasonable dose of HCG your chances of long term adverse effects are theoretically reduced. But then some guys run it way too high and get e2 problems that cannot be solved by an AI. So can see why it remains a controversial topic. But my TRT doctor has me on hCG because he wants me to maintain (relatively) normal function while I’m on exogenous testosterone. Perhaps because I’m on for life and a cycle is only 12 weeks the difference is enough that my protocol is useless to the guy who’s cycling. I urge you to keep studying this and other issues before you make any decision one way or the other.

#4

@mitchell_wilkins. I’ve looked into HCG a ton and you’re right it’s controversial and approaches are all over the place. Different approach from the AAS cycle guy vs the TRT guy, and then even within each of those circles people disagree.

HCG is supposed to keep your testicles functional and producing to whatever degree possible your own natural test.

I’m on TRT and my doc wanted me to take 5000iu once weekly! That’s insane IMO. I would have all sorts of aromatize problems. He doesn’t like to keep patients on it all the time so the shock the system twice annually for 8 weeks is his approach.

I find the better approach for me is 250-500 iu twice weekly. Prevents atrophy and no aromatize problems leading to Estro sides. I don’t see why this wouldn’t translate over to a cycle where the AAS user wasn’t on TRT for life. I’d lean towards 250iu twice weekly for the duration of the cycle.

But I’d also warn you that you’re really young. Think long and hard about wheathor or not the risk is worth the reward. There’s a decent chance you could damage your system and end up with loads of problems. But at the end of the day I believe that it’s your body so your decision as well. Best of luck man

#5

Your doctor wanted to turn you into Kaitlyn Jenner. Seriously, that’s an egregiously high dose for TRT.

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#6

Wow your doc is crazy. 5000iu is insane. Most docs are somewhere around 500-1000iu per week. I personally run 400iu twice per week with my TRT. I agree here with Jackolee, run your HCG twice per week at 250-500iu each time.

#7

@blshaw. Yeah I told him I thought it was crazy and he wouldn’t change it. It came at 5000iu per ml so I just took like .08 cc twice weekly. Problem was cost and expiration. The 5000 iu/ml at 10ml was enough to last for almost a year but everything I’ve read says HCG is good for only around 6 weeks… and it was something stupid like $400. I stretch it it out for a while, but ended up just going off of it. Atrophy really doesn’t matter to me and I’m dont having kids. Performance is still the same.

Didn’t fight him too hard on it though. Didn’t want to ruffle his feathers as he’s pretty cool with blaring and cruising. Writes me 400mg weekly so I cruise on 250 and save up for blasts. Also writes Adex and Nolva so all around he’s awesome

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