T Nation

Need Help Getting Off TRT After Only 2 Months

I’ll start with a summary of the awful situation I’m in and how I got into it:
Went into a doctor’s office with the usual symptoms; low energy, ED, can’t make gains in the gym despite training and dieting consistently etc. He refers me to an Endo suspecting Low T/High E.
Endo has me get Serum Testosterone, Prolactin and LH/FSH tested. LH/FSH come back in low normal and serum test comes in at 530 ng/dl. Also low normal (not that I knew at this point). Endo tells me my test is very low and decides to put me on TRT, diagnosing me with secondary hypogonadism. I, at this point know absolutely nothing about any of this, and just take his word on it that 530 ng/dl is a low enough level to start TRT and just do what he says.

I’m put on 250 mg Test E every 2 weeks for the first month, dose changed to 100 mg/week for the next 4.
Feel pretty damn good for those 2 months do don’t question it. Suddenly, I start feeling like shit again (worse than before starting); ED has gone from an occasional annoyance to total, and wonder what’s up so go back to an Endo. In the meantime, I’ve moved and so have to go to a different endo. I tell the new Endo of the problems I’ve been having and show him some bloodwork I had done that morning showing that my e2 had gotten fairly high and ask him for an AI and to renew my prescription.

He inqtead questions why I’m even on TRT to begin with and requests I show him my bloodwork before I started my TRT. He’s obviously alarmed at what he sees and questions why any sane doctor would put a 26 year old man on T injections at 530 ng/dl, especially when my other bloodwork showed I had deficiencies of Vitamin D, zync and magnesium which would have explained why it was on the low side of normal.

He explains that I need to get off TRT immediately and that I was misdiagnosed.
At this point, the side effects have gotten to be unbearable, I haven’t seen much benefit, and I don’t fancy being dependent on hormone injections for the rest of my life so I agree.
I’ve at this point read about PCT/HPTA restart with SERMS/hCG so inquire about that.

He won’t hear of it, and says I just have to live with bottomed out test for 3-6 months till I recover on my own. Says I shouldnt experience anything other than “tiredness, low libido, ED, loss of strength, fat gain etc”. I don’t know how he thinks half a year or more living like a decrepit old man is an acceptable prognosis but he’s adamant I take no PCT.

I get in touch with the original endo and he likewise won’t prescribe anything, and stands by his original diagnosis and treatment plan.

so TL;DR I need help to get myself out of this hole.
Waiting 6-12 months for my T to recover on its own is not an option.
I’ve managed to source 30 pills of 20mg Tamoxifen/Nolvadex (UGL) as well as some over the counter supplements (Vitamin D, ZMA, Ashwaganda, nothing fancy) and I’m wondering if I’m going to need hCG also.

My question for this forum is thus primarily:

  • What dose of Tamoxifen should I use ? I’ve read a lot of conflicting information on this;

  • 20mg ED for 4 weeks, 10 mg ED for 8 weeks, 20mg ED for 2 weeks followed by 10 mg ED for 2 weeks etc.

  • Is hCG really necessary ? I’m just about fed up of spending money on doctors and meds and taking injections at this point and I’m quite wary of ordering things from UGLs, for legal reasons mostly, so unless it will help significantly I’d rather do without it, especially since I’d need to take an AI along with it.

Summary of relevant information:
I’ve at this point been on TRT for about 2 months, 250 mg Test E every 2 weeks for the first month and 100 mg/week for the last 4 weeks. Did not take any AI or hCG throughout.
I’m 1 week out from my last injection and my last blood test 3 days ago had me at 1010 ng/dl serum T and 72 pg/ml E2 (no wonder I feel like shit).

I’ve experienced some testicular atrophy, but not extreme. I got the tell-tale aches in the testes the last week or so of TRT and can visually see they are slightly smaller.

Note: Endo claims no HPTA restart for anybody who’s been on exogenous test for less than 6 months is guideline procedure in this country so quite unlikely doctor shopping will do any good.

Specialised TRT clinics don’t exist here either.

Total T by itself isn’t very useful, a guy can have low-T at a total T of 800 if the SHBG is high enough, what was your Free T and SHBG pre-TRT?

36.30 nmol/l

How is anyone going to interpret this measurement of Free T without reference ranges?

The measurement is of SHBG not free T, sorry if I wasn’t clear.
My Free T measurement was never taken as far as I know.

None.

No.

Back in the halcyon days of the 70s and the 80s when most accomplished football players, weightlifters, powerlifters and bodybuilders used AAS as PEDs, very few did anything other than stop after their cycles, which might range anywhere from six to sixteen weeks, usually eight to ten. No one crashed. They would lose weight, size, strength and feel increased soreness from training, take longer to recover, etc., but nothing approaching terrible. Bodyweight might drop 8-15lbs, lifts ~10%, training volume dropped, but that was it.

2 Likes

This is the first I’ve heard of this.
Everyone else seems to talk endlessly about how important PCT is.

Various ways/methods to recover from AAS cycle or rough malpractice in your case. I feel for you. It takes time to recover and with your age I like @highpull 's recommendation.

Recover and then find a good provider and get to the bottom of your issues with bloodwork/lifestyle/diet/training. It takes effort and no guarantees. Best wishes.

Well, alright. Good to hear I suppose.
But since I have this Nolva anyway I might as well use it I suppose ? I’d like some advice on the best way to run it.

It that’s the way you want to go, this is good advice:

Of course in your case you don’t know if your Tamoxifen is Tamoxifen or what it is. So you may compound the issue. You could skip the hCG part above…

Would Nolva on its own be run any different ?

No. But if you want to make things more complex and can source legitimate products here’s the kitchen sink (recent protocol from pretty good TRT clinic in US):

Discontinue testosterone
Start 300 IU hCG daily for 2 weeks
Stop hCG, start 25 mg enclomiphene daily for 6 weeks
0.125 mg anastrozole three times per week during both hCG and enclomiphene
Stop everything, followup labs with CBC, TT, FT E2, LH, SHBG, PRL

Or try the Nolva as above then get blood work.

Good read if you’d like a little education on terms and HPTA:

I returned to baseline in only 4.5 weeks after two years on TRT all without any PCT.

Nothing wrong with using the Nolva 20mg for 30 days to expedite the recovery process