What can you tell about 5th set?
As far as i know, its basically 531 with doing lots of 2s before the Amrap, no? The progression might not be wave also, but im not sure.
Interested in why you think and how come 5th set would not need any tweaks?
Because Swede has told people a million times to do the program as written. The book(s) tell you exactly what to do and what adjustments to make.
Outside of those you probably don’t need to tweak it. That’s going to be true for probably 99.999999% of the lifters doing 5th set.
Well…as you said - best lifters are born not made by programs and tweaks. So doing any program as it is or tweaking it would change 10% of your individual performance.
Oh absolutely. I hit an elite total in powerlifting having only run 5/3/1, and I continued to run it and get stronger after that. I still largely adhere to the principles of the program/philosophy.
4 Likes
How many years on 531 did it take you to get an elite total?
There is a guy who was featured in Wendlers blog - he is running 531 for like 10 years or something. He is strooooong but his total is not elite tho.
As has been said many times, 5/3/1 can fit many goals. For powerlifting, a good version is use a bench variation (or not) on the press day, use one of your push slots for db shoulder press to build shoulder muscles, use 5 Pros and dabble with jokers at the right time. I think that’s basically 5/3/1 for powerlifting without the 3/5/1 bit of it 
If you want a bit of spice Josh Bryant’s programs are similar to 5/3/1 in structure (main lift, supplemental work then accessories) with heavier competition work and less focus on pressing, more variations if you want that plus dynamic work.
I also like the new(ish) juggernaut programs - basically upper/lower splits (mostly), block periodization. But there is a pretty steep learning curve there and you can go a long time without a heavy weight in your hands which some people don’t like (you could add a heavy single @7 pretty easily).
Also worth considering is the Stronger by Science templates. $5 and there is a bunch of options into how you set up. Again, I’d probably remove one of the press slots for a bench variation and use accessories for building stronger shoulders. This one also has a learning curve and also lots of volume. A day in week one has one movement at 5x5, two others at 5x7, back work for 50 reps then accessories - so yeah, a lifters program but it does some auto-regulating for you.
Wendler writes that you dont have to do the big 4, you can actually use 531 for any exercise.
Same goes with supplemental work - you dont have to use the same main movement - you can do alternative movement, so you can do bench 531 and incline supplemental… then you can do ohp 531 and then do close grip bench supplemental. The main movement in original 531 has to be done only for 1 real set, so you can leave the OHP there and just use all the supplemental and accessory slotts for bench…
1 Like
I can accept everyone points about 531 being able to get you good at power lifting. I REALLY do. And below is not me being defensive. More of an explanation of where I was at.
I have just always seen 531 “strength” programme. Sure you need to get strong to power lift. But I have always assumed that you need to make modifications to make it a good power lifting programme. Modifications that take it away from 531. Like changing the frequency of the lifts, dropping the press, adding in more variations of the big 3. I mean you mention lilliebridge. No idea on this. Is it still 531? No idea.
As I say - I’m not being defensive. If people with more experience of power lifting tell me 531 is enough- the who am I to argue? I just genuinely assumed that if someone wanted to get good at powerlifting there might be a better way than the way I got strong for rugby.
But if I’m wrong - well I’m wrong.
So the deal with 5/3/1 is that it’s a methodology and the programs come from the books, the tnation forums and wendlers site.
Remember lifting weights is GPP for football and lifting weights is sport specific for powerlifting.
Ergo - getting better at lifting weights is getting better at powerlifting.
1 Like
PS I totally appreciate you sticking to programme and not falling for our American English BS, and I also appreciate you explaining your view point.
1 Like
Well you could do West side Barbell Style or as most people know it as the conjugate method.
I did none of these alterations. I don’t know why you would, I think the frequency is fine, and the accessories are where you get variation. I think maybe for geared lifting, variations on the big lifts may be more important (I know geared lifters vary their range of motion specifically to acclimate to suits/shirts), but for raw lifters, I don’t think much is needed. The only thing I ever changed was leaving out the press for periods of time when I couldn’t get to the gym 4x a week. If I had to drop a day in a given week, that was it. And I actually regret that, I think the press is SUPER important for shoulder health now. If the only pressing you do is flat bench pressing, and you avoid OHP, it can become a major problem.
531 is the only program I ever ran specifically for powerlifting. It got me into the mid 500’s squat (unwrapped), a 600 deadlift, and just under 400 bench, while in the 181 class. I would say it took me 4ish years of serious lifting with more casual lifting before that, to do this. I made a TON of progress in my last year or powerlifting-specific training. I think I added like 300 lbs to my total from 2014 to 2015.
So to respond to your last assumption that there may be a better way to approach powerlifting, I would say sure. There might. But I doubt I could have done anything that would have been significantly better. My progress was pretty fantastic, so I know at the very least that it works, even at a high level.
4 Likes
I just wanted to chime in to say this was a good discussion. I too used 5/3/1 successfully for a number of raw powerlifting meets. This was before 5/3/1 for powerlifting came out so I didn’t get a chance to try it out. It was a good choice for me as I made the change from equipped lifting to raw, however, I eventually stopped making progress with it and found the constant focus on hitting rep prs mentally exhausting. (This latter bit is more me than the program.)
To get my total moving again, I switched to higher volume and higher frequency on the competition lifts (Sheiko and then in my last several years coaching through Reactive Training Systems). That certainly got my total going up again, but I’m also convinced it shortened my career – too much volume and frequency beat my knees up.
In short, I agree with the others that 5/3/1 would be a great choice for the OP.
2 Likes
Box Squats save knees
3 Likes
It helps hips for me as well as knees. I have been doing them just a bit higher than parallel, so the reduced ROM helps too.
1 Like
A bit late to the party on this one, but figured I would chime in.
OP, if your looking for something beginner friendly, but can use for long term progress, and will work well once you get more experienced I would recommend 5thSet written by Swede Burns, as mentioned earlier in the thread.
It is a solid methodology, and the book is well written. It spells essentially everything out from beginning to end. It will take you all the way from testing your lifts to start the program, up to how to start peaking and how to train up to your competition date. There is even an attempt selection strategy. It has been tested out on many of the lifters that Swede works with successfully. I have been using it for the last two and a half years, and really enjoy it. Unfortunately I was only able to use it to compete one meet due to a string of minor injuries and COVID. But it worked extremely well and I can’t wait to use it again this upcoming year (hopefully if meets start again where I live).
It is very easy to follow, and there is plenty of autoregulation and fatigue management in the program. I would say it falls into the categories of low to very low frequency and high to very high volume. Training days can take some time as there can be a lot of work to do, but you only squat or deadlift once every nine days. It can be a tough program at times but it is very doable. It is also pretty flexible with training schedules so you don’t have to worry so much about missing a day, you just pick up where you left off.
P.S. This is specifically for RAW powerlifting, just in case you planned on using equipment.
2 Likes