T Nation

Need Help about Lifting and Boxing


#1

hello guys, i dont know if this is the right place to post this because im new but ill post anyways. i have a problem with my training, im a boxer who is trying to mix lifting (squats,deadlifts,dips etc) with boxing and it is really hard to me because if ill try to move at weights for example then im getting slower at boxing, and if im trying to be better at boxing then im losing strength at lifting.

sunday, tuesday and thursday are boxing days, and im running at mondays and wednesday because i am going to the military in a few months so i have to run. mostly about the lifting i do only deadlifts,squats,dips chin ups and the last one is overall or biceps. i cant really think of a way to do this all and get better,the only thing that i get is soreness and tired to workout again. does anyone here is mixing lifting with boxing like i try and can give me some advice please?


#2

What kind of template do you use for lifting:
How frequent?
What volume?
What intensity?
What kind of progression?

I don’t say I’m the one with your anwsers, but just by knowing your excercise selection, nobody can really help I guess.


#3

You’re going to need to dramatically increase your intake of sugars if you want to progress at both fast with little downtime.

You’re mixing two highly energy consuming activities, the weakness and fatigue is from a lack of glycogen for the body to use. In the fitness world there is this weird demonization of carbohydrates going on at the moment, but it’s based off some very shoddy rationale and very little evidence. If you were a caveman trying to conserve energy for the long winter ahead, great. But you’re a modern person under stress already and now you are adding physical stress on top of it, you need the efficient energy substrate.

Muscle soreness will go down in time as you get used to the workload.

I started boxing as a light middleweight in my teens, by the time i was in my early 20s i was a cruiserweight. I didn’t use any specific program, in fact i went against dogma about sports training and just did whatever felt right at the time, sometimes it was low reps and very heavy weight, sometimes it was a program that looked more like a bodybuilders.

whatever the case was, i progressed lifts, bodyweight and boxing all at the same time. I can say without a doubt i was faster as a cruiserweight than I was as a light middle, if only because of physical maturity or experience.

The only consistent “tip” i can give you is I always made sure I got plenty of sugars and salt to replace the lost fluid. Salt is the most overlooked dietary component i feel, you can’t rehydrate your body properly without adequate salt, which you lose a lot of when you’re active. I used to drink large amounts of fresh orange juice often with a teaspoon of salt mixed in.


#4

You’re going to need to dramatically increase your intake of sugars if you want to progress at both fast with little downtime.

You’re mixing two highly energy consuming activities, the weakness and fatigue is from a lack of glycogen for the body to use. In the fitness world there is this weird demonization of carbohydrates going on at the moment, but it’s based off some very shoddy rationale and very little evidence. If you were a caveman trying to conserve energy for the long winter ahead, great. But you’re a modern person under stress already and now you are adding physical stress on top of it, you need the efficient energy substrate.

Muscle soreness will go down in time as you get used to the workload.

I started boxing as a light middleweight in my teens, by the time i was in my early 20s i was a cruiserweight. I didn’t use any specific program, in fact i went against dogma about sports training and just did whatever felt right at the time, sometimes it was low reps and very heavy weight, sometimes it was a program that looked more like a bodybuilders.

whatever the case was, i progressed lifts, bodyweight and boxing all at the same time. I can say without a doubt i was faster as a cruiserweight than I was as a light middle, if only because of physical maturity or experience.

The only consistent “tip” i can give you is I always made sure I got plenty of sugars and salt to replace the lost fluid. Salt is the most overlooked dietary component i feel, you can’t rehydrate your body properly without adequate salt, which you lose a lot of when you’re active. I used to drink large amounts of fresh orange juice often with a teaspoon of salt mixed in.


#5

I would start with these two training logs, both Irish and Londonboxer know what they are doing:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_boxing_fighting_mma_combat/log_othe_irish_30_


#6

thank you for the info


#7

Appreciate the hat tip Idaho! Good to see you checking in brother. Very good advice from Aussie Davo too.

A few tips, that I feel more qualified in offering now that I have some strength training under my belt:

  1. Pick one of either lifting or boxing whichever, and make it your priority. While I think you can make good progress with both, it is important to know which one is your real priority, so you’re straight in your own mind.

  2. Eat a lot, of whatever you need to, to support the level of training you’re doing. This is probably going to be the biggest factor in success, as Aussie Davo suggests. Sleep comes a close second for me personally, because when the workload is high, it becomes easy to rationalise skipping morning running etc towards the end of the week when the fatigue is adding up and you’ve not been sleeping properly.

  3. If boxing is your priority, follow a basic lifting program. Lofty posted this in another thread, and I think it is a good start. Start light, move the weights fast, and alternate the workouts 3x per week:

Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Deadlift 3x5

Workout B
Squat 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Power Clean 5x3

  1. Lifting, done properly, should not make you sluggish. I used to think that, but since putting the time in with it, it’s simply not the case. I’d steer clear of most isolation work, as I don’t think the return on investment is there if strength, power and recovery are your goals. In the off season, a couple of months with some high rep isolation work to pump blood into the muscles and retract your shoulder blades after 9 months or so of competition would probably not hurt though. In season I wouldn’t much fancy the day after a shoulder destroying weights workout.

  2. If you are getting sluggish, I suspect you are either fatigued, in which case eat and sleep more, or you are not attacking your shadow boxing with sufficient focus and intensity. I do think it is important, as you build new muscle, that you train it to have the endurance qualities of your old muscle. This may be pure bro science, but I think it is particularly important when gaining weight and building muscle that you do not let your conditioning slip, so that any new muscle comes in ready to perform how you need it to. This is where I would use a short shadow boxing session after your weight training - 10 mins or so, to really work on fast hands and feet, immediately after your weight training. I like to think that this is, on some level, telling your body what the purpose of adding this new muscle is.

  3. Perhaps somewhat counter-intuitively, if food and sleep aren’t making the difference, you may find you actually need to run more. The Thai fighters run everyday, sometimes twice a day, for miles and miles, on top of all their training. Lot’s of gyms have a ‘don’t run, don’t fight’ policy. It may be that if you don’t have the energy to do all of your training as you’d like, you don’t have a good enough conditioning base to perform that level of work. Running helps you build your work capacity, and for all the modern HIIT noise, I still don’t believe there is a better way to really get in fantastic condition than to include a liberal amount of middle distance running in your programming. Most of the fighters, and elite soldiers I know agree. Even walking 5 miles or so is valid, and will benefit your conditioning. As Irish posted here a while back, lots of the old time fighters did a lot of fast paced walking as conditioning in between bouts.


#8

Voice of reason on point 6! All round great points.

If intrested, check some Alex Viada stuff out. He is a huge advocate of zone 2 work aka slow paced cardio. It has a great deal of benefits, more efficient cardiovascular system and recovery as the main ones. You won’t turn into a cardio bunny from some running, especcialy if you also lift.


#9

hey, thanks for the answer, btw you got a great training log. can i do the 5/3/1 program and not the usual ss training? because im afraid ill get stuck at the weigths from the running (two runs 1 is 5.5 km and the other one is 8.5 km) and a 5/3/1 looks like a great program to recover and to get the results both in strength and boxing


#10

thanks for the answer


#11

If running a few miles a couple of times a week is causing you problems, then you need to eat significantly more, and perhaps get more sleep. A 3 mile run burns a couple of hundred calories at most, and shouldn’t be causing you any dramas. If you have an energy deficit when you get to your weight training, that suggests you are not eating to fuel your performance, which is a cardinal sin with combat sports. It is mentally draining to go in 3x each week knowing you’re going to fight good fighters and that consequently you need to deliver, even when you’re sore, or tired, or just don’t feel much like a fight. You have to eat right and sleep right so that your mind state is right.

You can follow any program you like - 5/3/1 would be a good choice, as is Lofty’s program, but if low intensity cardio is the complicating factor in your training, I think you are doing something very wrong.


#12

Such a short thread so far and such a wealth of information already. Thanks!