T Nation

Need Advice on Training Goals


I started out 2009 wanting to get big. I got a "hard gainers" training plan from a magazine referred to on this site as "Muscle and Fiction". To increase my 130 lb frame I set about eating a 4,000 calorie diet that was high in protein, fats, and carbs (I'm talking all six meals).

Needless to say I got bigger (160 lbs at my peak) and I learned a lot about my training abilities but I also put on a lot of fat. My uninformed diet practices resulted in elevated insulin levels all day which played hell with my hormones.

I was tired all the time and then in June I noticed a tender lump under my left nipple and then a smaller one in my right nipple. Those lumps eventually got bigger and when my chest got pumped it looked like I had breasts.

Gynecomastia reared its ugly head for the second time in my life (We tangled before during puberty). I had put on all this bulk to only have my torso look like shit. I was so disheartened that I didn't train nor eat properly all summer.

When I went back to school in the fall I decided that the most important thing was to get as lean as possible. Find out what fat could easily be gotten rid of and what could not. I went from 150 to 135lbs in a matter of weeks thanks to Clay Hyght's "Set Your Metabolism on Fire" PDF book.

My bodyfat percentage at it's lowest was probably 12% and currently 13%. I went low carb somewhere between 50-75 grams a day and did a mild carb up on Sundays and got good results. Not being naturally lean I was excited when my abs started coming out. I managed to lose a lot of the chest fat but the lumps and estrogenic fat stuck around.

I am at a loss as to where to go from here. I want to reverse my gyno and I figure a combination of Rez-V supplemention and Yohimburn ES coupled with a moderate low carb die might do the trick. My last resort would be to use AIFM a steroidal aramotase inhibitor. Or, being 130 lbs, I could go back and do a proper mass diet this time around and get back some hard earned muscle (I'm tired of being skinny). I've included a picture and would be grateful for some advice.


I feel as if you already know the answerer if you once went from 130lbs-160lbs...

Do you have a log of what you ate to get those 4,000 calories?


BUMP for OP?


By big conundrum is this. Is it ridiculous to try to get any leaner at 130lbs? I've read Mike Roussell's "Anti Skinny Fat Manifesto" article and he states quite equivocally that no one under 150lbs should allowed to function in a hypo caloric state. The main reason being that anyone under 150 lbs doesn't have enough muscle to display regardless of their body fat percentage.

I see the logic in this, and I don't enjoy being this thin, but the whole point of getting lean in the first place was to get rid of my excess chest fat. I've gotten rid of a decent amount but the rest of it seems to be stubborn estrogenic fat plus the ever present breast tissue. (Side note: The picture I have displayed above was taken in January when my keto diet was at it's peak. It doesn't do my gynecomastia justice.)

The way I see it...I have two options. I can slowly ease into a low carb fat loss diet (which worked really well for me)coupled with some REZ-V anti-estrogen, Flameout!, Yohimburn Es(which helps to break down stubborn estrogenic fat deposits), and some cardio in hopes of reversing the breast tissue and remaining fat.

The cons to this approach being that I have to diet which is not unbearable just not always enjoyable. That I'm not likely to gain and might even lose muscle. Which means I'm going to remain a twig for the next month or so. Even with all this effort my gynecomastia is not reversed and I'm stil left a scrawny fucker with tiny tits.

Second Option: I go all out toward putting on muscle with a cleaner diet where most of my carbs come from fruit and vegetables. By loading on up on healthy calories I might be able to rev up my metabolism and while gaining muscle burn some fat off my chest. I've read that the more muscle you have the harder it is for fat to stick around. I couple my mass training and diet with cardio once a week and the already mentioned supplements.

The cons being that I have one hell of a grocery bill waiting on me if I take this approach (I probably need a little over 3,000 cal a day to put on muscle). Even with this approach the gynecomastia might not be reveresed and I'm left a bulky guy with saggy pecs (albeit a better developed bulky guy than the bloated 160 lbs that I was before).

Nate Green is right when he says that he doesn't wish skinny fat on his worse enemy.



I'm not to familiar with gynocomastia but the thread above in the T-Cell may provide sufficient information.

I doubt you can post in that thread as you need to be invited by someone already posting in the T-Cell


The second option.

More muscle will def help, eat good quality food, gradually increasing cals as you up your training.

How old are you now? I've a feeling the gyno issue will resolve itself as you grow and start to add quality muscle. Trust me 130lb is not a good look, gyno or no gyno!

Have a read of the above posted gyno thread, as I'm sure you'll find useful info in there, but start lifting with the aim of adding some muscle, otherwise I guarentee you will not improve matters. You need to stimulate that testosterone with some heavy lifting.

Good luck.


tbh mate i think i'm in a similar situation. i'm just going to see how i look when my chest has gained some mass and then see if its still the case, and if it is i'm going to ask myself if its really annoying me to the tune of 3k.

if what prof x said in that t-cell is accurate about there being 60% of guys with it, then considering that 60% of guys dont die virgins i'm guessing its not such a big deal


Surgery is an option too mate - its not cheap but a samll price to pay if your insecurities are effecting your self-esteem


How old are you now? I've a feeling the gyno issue will resolve itself as you grow and start to add quality muscle.

Believe it or not I'm 21, and I had gyno when I was fifteen but it went away (or more likely got smaller). It came back when I was at the peak of my previously mentioned mass program. I'm guessing my body couldn't deal with all the testosterone in my system.


Hey man,

Have you ever considered adding the mass slowly and steadily?

You already tried to bulk up as fast as possible with extreme measures, and it didn't turn out well.

You bulked up to 160 and then dropped right back down to 130. That's a net change of zero in your body weight. It's like you didn't do anything at all.

The gyno is a problem, so I'd suggest going to the doctor about it. In the mean time, add size slowly. DO NOT do an all out bulk. Just eat slightly more than you need and you should gain muscle at a good pace if you are training well.

As far as where you should want to be... only you can decide that. For me, I started to realize how truly weak I still am by looking at high school athletes who are younger and stronger than me.

I think your goal should be to build a solid, athletic base, with broad shoulders and powerful legs. That's also the T-Nation party line.

So get on it!