T Nation

Need Advice on Third Cycle

Stats
28yo
208lbs
14%BF
5’11

Finished my last cycle of 600 test and 375 primo at the end of novemeber. Cycle was great, massive gains, only down side was hair shedding from presumably the primo. Currently on trt with 120 primo to finish it off until end of Dec. Still gaining, added a little more fat now though.

Trying to plan my next cycle to be ready for summer and I have 2 options.

Option 1 is 10 weeks bulking of test 440 and npp 300 starting in February to April . Then doing a cruise of 240 to cut for summer and polish the cut off with 250 primo 12 weeks from June to August then back to trt. This cycle would have me bigger for summer but starting the cut a little later.

Option 2
Trt until March where I do trt plus 150 primo to start cutting March and April. Then in may I would do 420 test and 390 EQ for 20 weeks. Continuing to cut on the first 4-8 weeks while the EQ kicks in then staying lean and bulking for the rest. This one wouldn’t have me as big for summer but would definitely have me coming in much leaner.

I like to keep the doses lower and try not to get too crazy with DHTs as I mentioned the shedding gets bad above 300.

Thanks!

I love it when people list their cruise… and that winds up being my “cycle”.

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Primo worked very well for me in low dosages and it was probably the only AAS I’ve ever been able to take that kept all my health markers in check while I was on it (including imaging of my organs for those extra curious)

But I’m talking 1-200mg/wk

But it’ll still drop HDL by around 10-20%

Tell me more pls. How did it work, what did it do, and what was the cycle?

Around 800 total a week is not really “lower”.

As far as your options - you are not a newbie, so just ask yourself - what you WANT to do, and do it.
When people ask something and they already have options, usually they want to see people agreeing on the same option they also like better and keep to themselves. Just do THAT one.

Haha… I would go back to trt for those months in between but I worry about muscle loss in a defecit. So I was going to keep it slightly higher.

Good point… Maybe I should re-evaluate my dosages.
That may help me choose between the 2 as well.

But the 800 total was with 2 compounds that people consider very mild side effect wise with bold and test.

Why don’t you keep your balance with your TRT ?

1st cycle was close to a gram total.
2nd was near 800 total.
3rd was planed a bit over 800 total.

600 test is not mild… 180 test is mild. 220 maybe. 250 max, could be considered mild, in my opinion. A total of gram is a total of gram.
Mildness is out the window when you blast high dosages. Tren is not mild, but 100mg of tren could be much milder than 600 test + primo or EQ.

You see, the thing with “mild steroids” is that they also give mild results, which lead to people taking them twice as much, which ends up to then not being mild anymore.
I believe that 200mgs of test and 100mgs of tren IS milder than a total of gram of anything you can take.
Anavar is considered mild. Dbol is not. Then again many people will take 30mgs of dbol but 100mgs of Var. I dont think Var is mild at 100mgs. I dont have any proof but i would guess that 30mgs of dbol could come out to be milder than 100mgs of Var.

Dont get me wrong - you havent done any trully bad cycles - you are doing your stuff smart, thats why i said - just pick what YOU want.
I just wanted to open a discussion about what you consider low doses etc, because 800-1g total of AAS is not really that low even tho you seem cautious and you did pick a bit safer options.
I just wanted to mention that the poison is in the dose and there can be a cycle with tren that ends op milder than most peoples test cycles, haha.

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It’s a great discussion to have and definitely makes me rethink things.

You may not be directly helping me choose but now im leaning towards the npp, lowering test a bit to keep it around 700 total. Which will be lower dose but more effective.

I am taking 300 test and 100 npp now. Im 265. Did that to bulk but moved to a slow cut. I believe you need less to cut than to build muscle.

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I agree, that’s why I figured 240 test would all I need to maintain gains while cutting. Saving the doses for growing.

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IMO, that depends how much cut you want. If you are shooting for “stage ready”, you need more AAS’s, though they need to be those that tend not to be “wet” roids. I didn’t actually do more, but I didn’t do less the final 3 weeks for sure.

All that said, I am probably off topic quite a bit.

How long can you run Npp at low doses say 225?

well ok, yes - your experience might be on the extreme side knowing that you actually did achieve something in bodybuilding, which means you were leaner than anyone who is lean by average people standards… i dont think most of us here aim to be stage ready, thats why i said that about the dose… i seemed to be able to drop 20lbs without losing actual muscle size pretty easy on like 250mgs of test alone… but yea, i was faaaar from “bodybuilding lean”.

I dont know, i have never taken more than 100… Also, 225 is not really a low dose, since most people blast 300-400, so 225 is just a bit lower than a blast-blast.
Going by what @Professor_Hulk said, it might be good to keep test higher than NPP - he has done NPP in all the possible ways.
So as much as i understand, it is safer to take 3:1 test-npp.
So by taking 225NPP it means doing a ton of test, so no thanks, i dont think i will ever do that… 300:100 is the highest i am up for it… i might drop the test to 200 after i cut down a bit, cuz i plan on doing this for a while… my BP is not a point higher on 300:100 than it was on just 250 test, so thats a good sign… unless something goes to shit ill probably cut on 300:100 and then ill try to slow bulk on 200:100 all in one stretch…
i will go by what my echocardiogram says in a month or so… if my heart looks good in the screen, i might do it for at least a year or at least i will have the measurements and i will compare those after a year of this.
my cardio stress test was good, my BP is the same as always - so i have a good feeling about this…
will probably scan the neck and head artheries also after echo to be on the safe side.

This is maybe the most under appreciated aspect of all drug consumption, steroids or otherwise.

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How long can you run Npp at low doses say 225?

How long before what? You “need” to stop? Gains dry up? Sides get bad? Health markers decline?

Not being a smart ass, just wondering what your threshold is.

Maybe this will help. Disclaimer: this is all bro science………

Nandrolone has been shown safe for long term use at 100mg/wk. just google “Nandrolone studies” and there are several.

But here’s a no-brainer: The heavier doses have not been studied and do bring more risks.

200mg/week: many folks have run this for long cycles (up to 20 weeks) and reported minimal side effects or major changes in health markers. You will likely “feel” NPP at this dose. And if you feed the increase in appetite that it causes, you will grow. IMHO, this is minimum effective dose for hypertrophy goals.

300/wk: I and many others start to get minor sides at this dose (agression, high BP, headaches) but gains come on quick if you are eating enough. This dose is the gains/sides tipping point, IMHO.

300+ week: more sides than with under 300, but not better gains. Not worth it, IMHO.

Also important to note, as @hankthetank89 pointed out, you have to consider what total androgen load you wanna use too. Because however much NPP you use, you’ll need at least that much Test, or up to double as much test, to keep your dick working and not feel like shit all the time.

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