T Nation

Need Advice on Test Prop Cycle


#1

Hi all,

First time poster long time reader.

A bit about my self...

Im 23 years old living in Melbourne and have been training heavily for the past 3 years. After some intense reading I have decided it is time to take the plunge to the dark side. During my training I have been seeing a nutrionist on a regular basis and have been very strict with my diet and training schedule.

I have recently returned home after living in London for the past year (where I was training but not as hard). Prior to heading to the UK I was seeing my nutritionist on a weekly basis and preparing for my first natural comp (Ended up traveling instead). At the time I was weighing 89kg. Being back in Melbourne and having so much free time I have become VERY addicted to the gym again.

First things first here is my stats/ diet/ training schedule and supps i am using.

STATS

My current stats = 88.3Kg, 6ft 2, body fat unknown

DIET

Meal 1:
5 tablespoons of Crunchola ( which is like a porridge but 10 x better) with four eggs, 1 tablespoon of LSA, 50mls of milk and 1 tea spoon of flaxseed oil. Protein shake with, 2 tablespoons yoghurt, 1 tablespoon lecithin, 2 tablespoons soland, 30grams of ON protein, 1 cup of mixed berries and 1 teaspoon of flaxseed.
Meal 2:
Two chicken breasts, 300 grams of basmati rice, with steamed vegetables (usually broccoli, carrots, corn, peas)
Meal 3:
ON Protein shake with low gi fruit. Usually a pear, orange and apple
Meal 4:
250 gram steak with 300 grams of basmati rice, with steamed vegetables (usually broccoli, carrots, corn, peas)
Meal 5:
Chicken breast sandwich on sourdough bread with lettuce, red capsicum, tomatos.
Meal 6:
ON Protein shake with low gi fruit. Usually a pear, plum and apple
GYM
Post workout:
ON Protien shake with 2 scoops of Waximaze
Meal 7:
250 gram steak with 500 grams of basmati rice, with steamed vegetables (usually broccoli, carrots, corn, peas)
Meal 8:
3 boiled eggs about 10 minutes before dessert which is 5 tablespoons of low fat Jalna yoghurt with ON protein and 1 teaspoon of flaxseed oil.

4 - 5 litres of water per day

may chuck in an extra turkey or tuna sourdough sandwich in there aswell.

SUPPS

Now regarding my supplements I currently make 6 stacks which are taken every two hours during the day.

Each stack contains:
2 teaspoon of creapure creatine
1 teaspoon of vitamin c
1/4 teaspoon of magnesium (muscle eze)
1 teaspoon L-glutamine
1 chromium picolinate

pre work out water formular:
No Xpload
1/2 teaspoon magnesium
1 teaspoon glucose
1 teaspoon vitamin c

Training schedule.

I train 6 days a week One muscle group per night ( Bi's and tris together).
What I found works for me the best after trial and error to gain size most effectively was reverse pyramids.

I have consulted my local doctor regarding blood tests and further information and have had my blood taken last week for LFT's, TFT's U/E/C FBE/ESR; Fasting Glucose, Trigs etc To monitor my levels through out the course.

Ok now down to business!

As this will be my first cylce I was going to run with Test-e however being in Australia it is very difficult to come across legit gear and I was not able to get my hands on Test-e instead I got Test-Prop. The cycle I was going to run was :

Week 1 - Test-E 500mg
Week 2 - Test-E 500mg
Week 3 - Test-E 500mg
Week 4 - Test-E 500mg
Week 5 - Test-E 500mg
Week 6 - Test-E 500mg
Week 7 - Test-E 500mg
Week 8 - Test-E 500mg
Week 9 - Test-E 500mg
Week 10 - Test-E 500mg

(3 weeks after - start pct)
Day 1 - Nolva 60mg
Day 2 - Day 14 - Nolva 40mg ED
Day 15 - Day 30 - Nolva 20mg ED

Nolva on hand incase of gyno - If symptoms appear it will be taken 40mg ED until symptoms go away then 20mg ED for the remainder of the cycle.

TEST PROP CYCLE
As stated above I managed to get a hold of Test-Prop. I have researched into test-prop and understand that as it is a low ester test it needs to be injected EOD. It also can be very painful. It would be great if you guys could help me setup a faultless cycle.

I was thinking of running
week 1 - 8 between 100 - 150mgs EOD
week 8 + Nolva
and Nolva on hand for gyno

At the moment the cycle is not a solid cycle this is where you guys come in hand : )
A few questions regarding my first cycle:

  1. What would you suggest for the first cycle? (dosages / length)

  2. Considering this is my first cycle on AAS. For PCT I was thinking of just running Nolva by itself ? to see how my body reacts to it (Instead of running clomid and nolva together). What dosage and how long should my PCT be ?

  3. If gyno symptoms become apparent during the cycle I was thinking of introducing Nolva. ( I would like to have an AI on hand like armidex, however it is very difficult to get my hands on it) What dosages should be taken if gyno symptoms appear and for how long ?

  4. Any other useful information would be much appreciated.

  5. It would be great to hear from people who have used Test-Prop

  6. What should I expect from test prop ?

Sorry for such a long post....

Thanks in advance


#2

1)

I would run the test prop at 50mg/ED, prop is not always painful. Injections for your first cycle are going to be uncomfortable no matter what you run. I think people don't like the prop simple because they have to inject so often and use the same fricken spot over and over and over. I know there is legit painful gear, but i've never had painful prop....

2)

Nolva by itself is fine, take at least 10mg/day or 20mg/eod to start. as for arimidex..get some, be a resourceful lad. Start taking the nolva right away, then try without it after a few weeks. however you should be taking at least .25mg ed. It may not be necessary, but having no tits is better then having tits....

3)

IF gyno symptoms appear take 60mg nolva until symptoms dissapear then back down to your normal dose or slightly higer. but at 350mg test/week it shouldn't be an issue.

4)

get lots of sleep. and train the fuck out of your legs. learn to pin gluts, shoulders, quads.

5)

I love test Prop. Its my favorite test. i've run up to 100mg/day with tren/mast and it was wonderful. 50mg/ed is enough to grow off of your first cycle.

6)

Same thing you would expect from test enth, just faster. little bit bigger, little bit leaner, etc etc.

cheers

iron


#3

Thanks heaps for such a quick response iron.

Considering this is my first cycle using AAS I am a bit weary to pin everyday. Would it be fine to pin 100mg/EOD ?

How does this look for the cycle ?

Week 1 - 8 Test Prop 100mg/EOD + .25mg Nolva ED

PCT
Week 8 + 10mg Nolva/ED

Nolva on hand for gyno. If symptom appear introduce Nolva @ 60mg

I will try and source arimidex, I understand arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme which is the enzyme that turns test into enstrogen. However, I thought Nolva was more of a user friendly option, is this correct ? or would you suggest using arimidex through out the cycle and nolva just for pct ? If so at what dose ?

Lastly, I have heard that Test-prop can cause flu like symptoms, have you ever experienced this ? are there ways to avoid it ?

Thanks again

Luke


#4

Thanks heaps for such a quick response iron.

Considering this is my first cycle using AAS I am a bit weary to pin everyday. Would it be fine to pin 100mg/EOD ?

How does this look for the cycle ?

Week 1 - 8 Test Prop 100mg/EOD + .25mg Nolva ED

PCT
Week 8 + 10mg Nolva/ED

Nolva on hand for gyno. If symptom appear introduce Nolva @ 60mg

I will try and source arimidex, I understand arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme which is the enzyme that turns test into enstrogen. However, I thought Nolva was more of a user friendly option, is this correct ? or would you suggest using arimidex through out the cycle and nolva just for pct ? If so at what dose ?

Lastly, I have heard that Test-prop can cause flu like symptoms, have you ever experienced this ? are there ways to avoid it ?

Thanks again

Luke


#5

"Week 1 - 8 Test Prop 100mg/EOD + .25mg Nolva ED"

is that a typo, do you mean .25mg Anastrozole/Arimidex ED

It will be great if you can get some AI, which means you can safely run your test prop at a highger dosage. But as I understand Arimidex is hard to get and very expensive. But look at the bright side, even if you can not get arimidex, which mean your have to run lower dosages, really eat right, and train hard to get results. It's not a bad thing.

If you are gyno prone, you should run a low dosage of nolvadex with your test, say 10mg/day. Also, injecting everyday would result in a stable blood level, which means less side effects. I think it is important especially if you do not have any AI. I would personally run a 6 week prop cycle, as the gains slows right down past week 6 for me.

Week 1-6 or 8 Test prop 50mg/day, Front load 150mg on day 1
Week 1-6 or 8 Nolvadex 10mg/day optional
Week 7 to 10 Nolvadex 40/40/20/20

Nolvadex at lower dosages is just as effective for PCT, so if you want to save money, do 20/20/10/10.
I assume you are using australian vet grade test prop, which brand are you using? Are you using repackaged UGL vials or originals? Some dealers cut the prop with oil, so you get a diluted product. I like Virbac Tepro-Hormone
500ml testosterone propionate @ 100mg/ml. It's very cost effective when you buy in bulk :). Comparable to multi-vitamins. Very hard to find in state side though.


#6

Any test can cause flu like symptoms, but they are temporary and are not very common. You could get away with 100mg/EoD but you may have more sides from it. I know pinning seems scary now, but its really not all that bad. Just make sure you pin with a 25g needle :wink:

If you do have vet grade, it shouldn't hurt. hopefully.....

And i would start your cycle using the nolva, just in case. its a good safety precaution so you can gauge your test tolerance before you get gyno.

Other then that, looks good. Have fun. Pinning is fun :slightly_smiling:


#7

If you're willing to take the risk of irreversible breast tissue growth, then by all means keep the nolvadex "on hand". Just keep in mind that (I'm speaking from experience) for some users the first symptom of gyno is a red hot ball of tissue under the skin that never goes completely away.

On the other hand you could simply take the nolvadex (or arimidex) and not worry about it. I prefer arimidex, and if you can procure testosterone you should have no problems getting your hands on some.

The fact that I still hear first time steroid users taking aromatizing compounds talk about keeping things "on hand" is a little baffling to me.

I have personally experienced flu-like symptoms (usually a low-grade fever and/or aches) using test, though not since I've started making my own. The symptoms usually subside within a few days, can be controlled with aspirin, and are nothing to worry about.


#8

Thanks Moriarty for the advice. I was going to run 10mg of Nolva ED with The test for the whole duration of the cycle (6-8 weeks) and if gyno symptom appeared bump it up to 60mg until they subside.

So im a bit confused in regards to your post ? are you saying that I should bump up the dose of Nolva whilst on prop ?

Also I stated that I am in the process of sourcing arimidex ? once I obtain arimidex (if i do) I will adjust the cycle accordingly.

Any further advice from your past experience is much appreciated.

Thanks again

L


#9

Yes its Australian test prop. A mate got a bladder of Virbac Tepro - Hormone. Dont know much about it, im guessing it is vet grade yeah ? What are your experiences with it ? The bladder has not been opened I will be splitting it into sterile vials with him. Approx how much would a bladder be worth ? I want to gauge how much i should pay for it once split.

L


#10

Sorry to confuse you. I was responding to your initial post, not your updated one. Nolva at 10mg/day should be just fine.

With regards to injection frequency, I agree with ironjoe in that I very much prefer ED injections, but EOD is certainly not the end of the world. How painful your test prop is is purely a matter of how it was prepared, but typically it's overstated as long as you're rotating injection sites. It's possible that you start off with EOD injections, realize how simple they are, and start shooting everyday.


#11

Great thanks heaps.

The test-prop i have sourced is Virbac Tepro - Hormone. This is vet grade test-prop. What are the major differences in using a vet grade prop to human grade ? Its currently an sealed bladder. Which will be split into sterile vials (In front of me) is this fine to do ?

sorry for all the questions

Thanks again Moriarty


#12

It is perfectly fine to split the bladder into vials. The price depends on your source, how connected it is etc? anywhere between 1-3k aud. The price is not important, just make sure you got real gear :slight_smile:


#13

thanks mephistopheles


#14

Hey buddy, i live in Sydney. Bladders of prop usually retail for around 7 dollars a ml at 250mls a bladder if you know people etc. Becuase stuff is a bit harder to get in victoria you would probably expect to pay around 2500 for a 250ml bladder.

Price is irrelevant because if you bought single vials you would probably be lucky to find them for less then 180. In australia you won't find a 250ml bladder priced at 1000 i don't think, unless you completely run the drug trade ahah.


#15

Props to the guy who breaks that country!


#16

thanks heaps alex


#17

No problem mate, shame you don't live in Sydney. Test e is fairly easy to get here but the prices vary massively, between 220-300. At the Fitness first i train at i know 3 dealers alone who make it pretty clear that they sell. Anyway hope your stuff is good, i'm only 20 so i am waiting 1 more yaer for my first cycle!


#18

Alex, I think your are refering to Ropel Test-E 75mg/ml packaged in 250ml bladders. The OP is taking Virbac Test-prop 100mg/ml, packaged in 500ml bladder. The test-e product has very low concerntration, which requires frequent/high volume injection. THe test prop is much better value for money. I was quoted well below 1000AUD for ropel te and virbac TP cost about 50% more, shipping direct from a sydney distributor. BTW this is for legit commercial purchase. Stock up while you can, they will last you for a while. They are great for preventing crotch rot.


#19

Haha you clearly know your stuff better then i do!