T Nation

Need Advice on Clomid & Managing Hormones for ED


#1

Some quick background. Had occasional ED issues since 17, likely performance anxiety cause maturbation was always fine. Mid 30’s now and T levels were checked a few years ago and they were lower-normal.

I’ve noticed ED meds really aren’t working and don’t get me fully hard anymore and after years of being a workaholic, I think maybe the idea of chlomid reset makes sense (let me know if this makes sense).

Taking 25mg of chlomid daily. Its been about two weeks, and Im guessing that since morning wood started a couple days in (which never really happened before) that my T is increasing.

I was very cautious about the T converting too much to Estogen so I was taking armistane 25mg daily for a month ending the first week of chlomid (just cause I ran out currently) and 150mg daily of DIM (still taking) to control it.

I am starting to wonder if my estrogen might actually be too low though, because the symptoms are anxiety, depression, lack of penis sensitivity, and ED (all of which I feel to some degree). Since I just started dating someone who I find ridiculously beautiful and even with all my ED meds (way too much, like 70mg cialis, 200mg viagra, and some levitra mixed in for good measure) I’m still not getting rock hard and I’m not feeling that much sensitivity or even excitement during sex (which I couldn’t even make happen the first week-which is when I was taking both aromatase inhibitors, but also earlier into chlomiphene. It’s not much better now either)…I want to be turned on…but I’m just not…I see that she is beautiful, but it’s like art.

Anyhow, I’m essentially wondering if I may be doing too much to control the estrogen and tanking it. And while getting a hormone profile would likely show me, I just lost my job and am trying to use observational evidence to determine the best course of action.

Other than all that, I am a seemingly healthy guy who is just starting to work out again after being sedentary for a few years…blood pressure a couple ticks high but not serious, thin and appear fit.

I welcome any advice. Really just want to function again and WANT to desire sex again. Having higher T to get back in shape is secondary.

Thanks all!


#2

25mg clomid increases LH/FSH and thus T, but if LH is high, there can be a lot of E2 made in the testes. But you are now on clomid+DIM and E2 could be high.

25mg clomid EOD may be sufficient.

You should have done lab work first as your base situation is now not available for labs:

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Labs:
TT
FT
E2
LH/FSH - affected by clomid!
prolactin
CBC
hematocrit
AST/ALT
TSH
fT3
fT3

Thyroid can affect other hormones, mood, energy and libido.


#3

I suspect high E2 as well. I was on clomid for 7 months and while it jacked up my T production, it also jacked up my E2, which could not be controlled with anastrozole because apparently the E2 was in my testes. In fact, my E2 went even higher - up to 79.4, and I could barely have sex with my wife - who I find very attractive and like to have sex with. I recently crashed my E2 down to 8.4 in 2 weeks using a below normal (for given T dosage) does of anastrozole and could still perform without a problem.


#4

Thank you both for your feedback. This makes me think I really need to go find a cheap doc to write me the permissions to get a full test because I really thought my estrogen was too low and both of you (who likely understand this better than I do) think it’s too high.

I actually realized that Saw Palmalleto is also and estrogen reducer, so I was essentially on 3 E2 reducers for a couple months prior to ever starting any test boosters (only my second week on chlomid) but despite this, it still sounds like my E2 may be high?

I just read these symptoms of low estrogen and thought, maybe…

Fatigue
Oversleeping
Sleeping too often
Erectile dysfunction
Water retention
Anxiety
Depression
Irritability


#5

In USA you can in most States order your own labs on line and pay out-of-pocket for a faction of what docs charge.


#6

The symptoms of low E2 and high E2 are similar, and I think until you’ve had both low and high E2, it could be hard to know the difference. In fact, I thought my E2 was high, so I took an extra .25mg of anastrozole, which only brought my E2 lower. After this bout of low E2, I hope to never have it again.

I pay a flat monthly fee to a clinic for TRT, but I do my own labs through privatemdlabs. As @KSman says, you can’t be passive - you have to take matters into your own hands because even the docs at big name TRT clinics aren’t that good.


#7

Good advice guys…yeah, I’ve spent the morning trying to distinguish
between the symptoms of high and low and can’t be 100% sure and was simply
relying on the lack of sexual response to what I can tell is an increasing
Test and the fact that I’ve been taking Estogen reducers for a while
without ever boosting my test.

But this is a serious game and I don’t want to get it wrong. I’ll check out
the online lab you mentioned. Is that the fastest way to get a quick
turnaround time on results?


#8

TRT is a serious game and life is too short to get it wrong…monitoring and recording symptoms are a great tool, but having frequent lab work to go along with them is indispensable, IMO.

Privatemdlabs - if you make an order during business hours you’ll get an email within an hour, and then you just print out the lab req and go get your blood drawn. E2 test is $71.49 before coupon code. Turnaround time seems to be a week or more, which is annoying. I don’t know if other labs are better or worst. Everything but the turnaround time is great with privatemdlabs.


#9

Oh I don’t do TTT, like I said, I’ve never done anything to increase my T
outside of the chlomiphene I ordered online a couple weeks ago, just took
the estrogen inhibitors. But thank you very very much :slight_smile:


#10

Really frustrated with our system. I remembered I had ordered a hormone profile and my Dr had approved it before I got laid off. So I went to get it done and it only included liver and T, not estrogen. I asked them to take extra blood and please speak to the Dr or his nurse about adding the estrogen. Apparently the doctor wanted to sinply stick to the current tests and asked me to make another appointment. WTF!? Why the hell do we need these approvals to asses our own health?

I had the nurse email the doctor my appeal explaining my symptoms, so hopefully he changes his mind. Just kinda pissed. Ill likey be using that online resource you guys provided.

I hate the delay though. In the meantime, since I was taking inhibitors without T, im still suspecting its low, so i will just stop the inhibitors, stay at 25mg/ day of chlomiphene and assess my symptoms over the next week…hopefully that tells me if im going in the riggt direction or not.


#11

Please be specific about these things. Its either a SERM or an AI.


#12

After battling to get my doc to do bloodwork he didnt want to approve, I
had blood drawn on the 13th of Jan (2 weeks after self-prescribing
chlomid).

Of course he only measured total T and Estradiol, but both of you guys were
right about the E2 being high.

T is 555 (A couple years before it was in the mid 300’s)

Estradiol was 41 (they said normal was up to 39)

Leading up to having my blood drawn I was taking daily 150mg of DIM and
450mg of Saw Palmetto for 2 months.

Between 2 and 1 month prior, I was also taking 50mg of Armistane, but ran
out so was off for the month leading up to the test.

ALSO- since the bloodwork I stopped taking all E inhibitors, so its likely higher since its not being controlled and Chlomid had only been introduced for 2 weeks.

I have never taken any Test boosters before starting Chlomid (aside from
the over the counter stuff), so I had assumed my symptoms were from too low
estogen.

Any recommended adjustments to both Chlomid and Estradiol inhibitors?

Thanks again!


#13

TT=555 is not great.
E2=41 is really lowering quality of life.

You could try 0.75 mg anastrozole per week. If you can’t get E2 in lower 20’s, you would have to reduce clomid dose and then TT would not be good. Clomid may not be the right solution for you.

You might also need to find an better doctor.


#14

Thanks KS MAN,
Is 555 still low if it’s only 2 weeks into chlomid use and it’s a 200 point
increase?

I ordered some anastrozole. I’ll try to get new tests soon.


#15

TT may increase, but it is still a cesspool of estrogen.

If anastrozole does not work, it is because dose of clomid is too high for you, causing high T–>E2 inside the testes and anastrozole does not work there.


#16

Yeah, I’m planning lower chlomid from 25mg / day to 12.5. I’m not sure how gradual this should be so I have tentatively decided to split the difference for a week (this is my 4th day on 16.67), then in a few more days go to 12.5.
Does this sound reasonable?
When the anastrozole arrives, I will take .25 every other day.
Do you think I should retest now, or a couple weeks after this regiment begins?