T Nation

Need Advice About Low Testosterone

I’m new to your forum & am hoping that I can obtain some advice from you as to a proper course of treatment to pursue.

I am 49 years old, 5’ 8", 140 lbs., less than 6% body fat. Weight train 3X week, cardio 2X. Work out pretty hard, use the HST program (if you are familiar with). After getting a stress fracture of my left fibula running, my doctor did blood & bone density tests. The results are as follows: Total Testosterone 249, Free Testosterone 68. Bone density: lumbar spine 33% decrease, hip bone density 23%.

Except for a low libido I feel great.

My doctor has prescribed Androgel 2.5gm which I started on yesterday. Only difference that notice thus far is that I am a bit hyper. He also wants to put me on Fosamax, which I am not too keen on. Another doctor that I contacted suggested not to go with the Fosamax & to up the Androgel to get me to a T level of 800. He wants 1400 bucks to give me a complete nutritional/exercise/tesosterone evaluation.

I’m reeling a bit from all of this. Any thoughts? I’m not quite sure what I’ve got and what I need to do, if anything.

Thank you very much.

Bill in Los Angeles

Do doctors try to help their patients do things naturally anymore before putting them on a bunch of shitty,dangerous drugs?
Seriously.
I’d get off the medication if I were you and try eating a diet higher in saturated fat and cholesterol(stick to more natural foods if you can-free-range meat and organic dairy is great because you get none of the synthetic hormones),get lots of sun light, stay away from processed foods,and eat lots of fish and fish oil.
Then start taking a good supplement like Alpha Male and TRIBEX.

cthulhu

[quote]wpaxt wrote:
I’m new to your forum & am hoping that I can obtain some advice from you as to a proper course of treatment to pursue.

I am 49 years old, 5’ 8", 140 lbs., less than 6% body fat. Weight train 3X week, cardio 2X. Work out pretty hard, use the HST program (if you are familiar with). After getting a stress fracture of my left fibula running, my doctor did blood & bone density tests. The results are as follows: Total Testosterone 249, Free Testosterone 68. Bone density: lumbar spine 33% decrease, hip bone density 23%.

Except for a low libido I feel great.

My doctor has prescribed Androgel 2.5gm which I started on yesterday. Only difference that notice thus far is that I am a bit hyper. He also wants to put me on Fosamax, which I am not too keen on. Another doctor that I contacted suggested not to go with the Fosamax & to up the Androgel to get me to a T level of 800. He wants 1400 bucks to give me a complete nutritional/exercise/tesosterone evaluation.

I’m reeling a bit from all of this. Any thoughts? I’m not quite sure what I’ve got and what I need to do, if anything.

Thank you very much.

Bill in Los Angeles[/quote]

Thanks for the advice. I’ll look into the 2 supplements that you mention. I did try the Testosterone Advantage Diet & didn’t notice a measurable increase in my T. Plus my doctor got on me about risking higher cholesterol.

Also, I am allergic to fish & therefore can’t eat fish or take fish oil.

Bill

Try some flaxseed oil then.
But make sure you get a lot of omega three.
That tells me a lot.
You don’t eat any fish/fish oil.
Many people have hormonal problems,such as low testosterone,due to a poor diet that is deficient in omega 3.
Make sure you’re getting plenty of flaxseed oil since you can’t get fish oil.
Eating foods that are high in cholesterol,such as eggs,does not make your cholesterol levels shoot up.
It’s a stupid theory like salt making blood pressure high.
There are many countries that eat a lot of saturated fats and cholesterol and are low on the scale of heart disease and other health problems.

[quote]wpaxt wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I’ll look into the 2 supplements that you mention. I did try the Testosterone Advantage Diet & didn’t notice a measurable increase in my T. Plus my doctor got on me about risking higher cholesterol.

Also, I am allergic to fish & therefore can’t eat fish or take fish oil.

Bill[/quote]

Boy did I need to hear from you! Thank you very much for the advice. This is exactly the kind of information that I was looking for.

Bill

I too would like some advice on this subject. I am 35 years old and just had a complete physical done a couple weeks ago. I’ve been weight training regularly again now for four or five months and have regained a lot of muscle size and strength, yet my total testosterone levels came in somewhat low at 281.

I’m a big guy with a big frame at 6’ and 302#…but at 35 I still can’t grow a moustache and have very little body hair compared to most men. [sometimes a blessing ;-)]…which may be indicative of low T.

I read some online after a google search, and found the normal range listed at 250-1300 from one source and webmd has normal T-levels listed as 300-1000.

My doctor simply listed my results as being ‘within the normal range’…which prompted me to see where in the normal range they were.

Should I be concerned that I am at the low end or even below webmd’s recommendations? I eat lots of eggs and stuff and my cholesterol results from this same physical have me at 169…while we’re at it, triglycerides were 152, HDL was only 31, LDL was 108 and fasting blood sugar was 89. All of these numbers are better than a year ago when I decided to start taking better care of myself.

Should I be talking to my doctor about androgel or something?..or since I’m borderline, would a product like AlphaMale be a better alternative…and does it REALLY WORK?

wpaxt: if you have such low levels of test and a stress fracture, then i think it may be more complicated in your case than simply taking a test boosting supp and eating well. your doctors are correct to get you on some test until both your levels go up and bone density improves.

not wanting use the fosamax is valid, i would start by making sure my fruit, veggie, and animal protein intake are higher and that fats are balanced. this will be anabolic to your bone. you also have low body fat, so make sure you are consuming enough calories because you have no reserve.

SeaHag: at 300 pounds, you should focus on fat loss as much as possible. this will allow your body to use more of the test you produce. for you, testing for estrogen levels could be more important. if they are high, it is an indication that your test is converting at high rates.

this is likely from aromatization occuring in fat cells (they tend to have higher concentrations of aromatase). rev-z would be helpful for this.

as for the efficacy of Biotest’s products, i can assure you they do exactly what they say. i have normal to high normal levels and the Alpha Male still will crank it up so i feel like i am on test.

Thanks Ublo. I have dropped about 80 pounds so far and plan to lose about another 30…but its slower going the closer I get to my goal weight.

I’d really let myself go for a couple years, but I am a big guy with a lean weight in the 250-260# range.

I’d started weight training again using circuit training and high reps [20-35], but then switched to more muscle building principles after reading some articles here. I lift three times a week and try to get out on my mountain bike at least one more day per week; while trying to maintain low carb eating habits.

I asked the Doc to test my TEST because I’d read how low test levels can make it more difficult to lose weight; and I would like as few road blocks as possible to getting back in shape.

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
Try some flaxseed oil then.
But make sure you get a lot of omega three.
That tells me a lot.
You don’t eat any fish/fish oil.
Many people have hormonal problems,such as low testosterone,due to a poor diet that is deficient in omega 3.
Make sure you’re getting plenty of flaxseed oil since you can’t get fish oil.
Eating foods that are high in cholesterol,such as eggs,does not make your cholesterol levels shoot up.
It’s a stupid theory like salt making blood pressure high.
There are many countries that eat a lot of saturated fats and cholesterol and are low on the scale of heart disease and other health problems.
wpaxt wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I’ll look into the 2 supplements that you mention. I did try the Testosterone Advantage Diet & didn’t notice a measurable increase in my T. Plus my doctor got on me about risking higher cholesterol.

Also, I am allergic to fish & therefore can’t eat fish or take fish oil.

Bill

[/quote]
Cthulhu:
what school is your Md from?

bill,

listen to your doctor. he is more qualified than anyone to treat any ailment, deficiency etc that you might have.

so far, this guy is criticizing your doc for putting you on medicine that he feels you don’t need, yet he recommends you take herbal supplements that attempt to do the same thing.

you have the real deal, your blood levels are being monitored and your doctor can make accurate adjustments as necessary.

“…found the normal range…”

The only range that applies is the one included on your blood work. The numbers are not interchangeable with other testosterone tests. That’s why people on this board are asked to included the designated reference ranges of their specific test.

I salute your progress. Congrats. At 35, you have drawn a line in the sand.

I do view your numbers with some skepticism. If you were truly a lean (<8% bodyfat), muscular man at 6 foot, 250 pounds without steroids, you would be a candidate for a national bodybuilding competition. Mr. Olympia contenders push a dry, ripped 275, they are often under six foot tall, and they’ve been training and they’ve been on for several years.

So if you continue in your worthy pursuit, don’t freak if you actually get closer to a lean 220. It’s been my observation that obese men often overestimate how much muscle they’ve got.

If your numbers are indeed correct, then celebrate your freakish genetics and make the most of them.

You could check out the physicians list at lef.org. The doctors who belong to this foundation may be more willing than your average practitioner to help a patient who is borderline normal.

My overall guess is that you should just continue doing what you have been doing. I think an eighty pound fat loss is phenomenal.

Did any of the physicians in any of these case take it a step further more tests to see what and where the problem stems from?? Secondary or Primary?? Take any other route of fixing the prob aside from replacement

Phill

Bill,

At 49, lowered testosterone and decreased bone density, if you can be on hormone replacement its all nice.

As you doc suggested, you should probably be focusing on rebuilding bone at this point since you are on the downgoing trend of bone loss (just by being above 30) with other factors (lower test).

Generally, Vitamin D and Calcium with a biphosphonate (like Fosamax) are first line agents for men.

Even with all of this, you might not rebuild bone mass to the level of the normal 49 yo male even with resistance training and all that.

People mess around with supplements and diet trial for a long time when for a number of conditions they have proven ineffective.

Anyway, remember that with reduced bone density you have increased fracture risk and in patients over 50 years old, a hip fracture is associated with 45-50% mortality at 1 year.

Anyway, good luck with your bones.
AlexH.

[quote]wpaxt wrote:
I’m new to your forum & am hoping that I can obtain some advice from you as to a proper course of treatment to pursue.

I am 49 years old, 5’ 8", 140 lbs., less than 6% body fat. Weight train 3X week, cardio 2X. Work out pretty hard, use the HST program (if you are familiar with). After getting a stress fracture of my left fibula running, my doctor did blood & bone density tests. The results are as follows: Total Testosterone 249, Free Testosterone 68. Bone density: lumbar spine 33% decrease, hip bone density 23%.

Except for a low libido I feel great.

My doctor has prescribed Androgel 2.5gm which I started on yesterday. Only difference that notice thus far is that I am a bit hyper. He also wants to put me on Fosamax, which I am not too keen on. Another doctor that I contacted suggested not to go with the Fosamax & to up the Androgel to get me to a T level of 800. He wants 1400 bucks to give me a complete nutritional/exercise/tesosterone evaluation.

I’m reeling a bit from all of this. Any thoughts? I’m not quite sure what I’ve got and what I need to do, if anything.

Thank you very much.

Bill in Los Angeles[/quote]

2.5 grams of Androgel is probably not going to help you very much. Yes, there are a few people who do well on such a low dose, but most don’t. You might feel a little better at first, but as your body senses the rise in testosterone, it will most likely suppress your natural production, leaving you with less than you started with.

My doctor started me right out on 10 grams per day, and even that barely nudged my numbers. Now I’m on 100mg of Testosterone Cypionate per week. I’m waiting for my latest blood work to come back from the lab.

I suggest keeping a close eye on your estradiol level too. Try to shoot for the middle of the reference range. High estrogen can play havoc with your libido, as well as cause gyno and a host of other problems. And low estrogen is no walk in the park either.

You should also talk to your doctor about HCG therapy. As I mentioned, being on exogenous testosterone suppresses your endogenous production. HCG simulates the function of luteinizing hormone, which in turn stimulates the testicles to produce testosterone. It also has the nice side effect of preventing your testicles from shrinking, which is a real possibility when on test.

Good luck.

[quote]Plowman wrote:
“…found the normal range…”

The only range that applies is the one included on your blood work. The numbers are not interchangeable with other testosterone tests. That’s why people on this board are asked to included the designated reference ranges of their specific test.

I salute your progress. Congrats. At 35, you have drawn a line in the sand.

I do view your numbers with some skepticism. If you were truly a lean (<8% bodyfat), muscular man at 6 foot, 250 pounds without steroids, you would be a candidate for a national bodybuilding competition. Mr. Olympia contenders push a dry, ripped 275, they are often under six foot tall, and they’ve been training and they’ve been on for several years.

So if you continue in your worthy pursuit, don’t freak if you actually get closer to a lean 220. It’s been my observation that obese men often overestimate how much muscle they’ve got.

If your numbers are indeed correct, then celebrate your freakish genetics and make the most of them.

You could check out the physicians list at lef.org. The doctors who belong to this foundation may be more willing than your average practitioner to help a patient who is borderline normal.

My overall guess is that you should just continue doing what you have been doing. I think an eighty pound fat loss is phenomenal.
[/quote]

Plowman- Thanks for the input. I guess ‘lean’ is a relative term and I can’t say what body fat percent I was at, at that time. I’m recalling my fitness level from ten years ago when I was 25, worked in a cast iron foundry toting 300-400# wheel barrows of metal around for 8 hours a day on top of lifting weights and riding mountain bike at least 100 miles per week.

When I played football in high school, I was 225# at the same height and wore size 32 waist jeans. I’ve never had a six pack abs…as a matter of fact I hate ab work…but I did have a flat stomach…and at 25, I was wearing those same size jeans while weighing right at 250#…thats what I consider an optimal lean weight for me.

I have no desire to get into body builder shape, and I don’t have the genetics to do so. I have no taper. Imagine a big rectangle and set a small circle on top and you have my shape.

My training partner is a high school football coach and has told me repeatedly, I have a deadlifters build…whatever that means.

Anyway, I come from big strong farm stock, and have lifted weights since I was 10 years old off and on. As a softmore in high school, I was already squatting over 425, and benching 295. I don’t squat heavy anymore, but my bench is back to 350, and climbing.

I’m looking to enhance my T-levels to make my weight loss easier, and for the other health benefits. I’m currently supplementing with vitamins, protein, and Biotest HOT-ROX Extreme.

PS: I keep forgetting to mention that I had a vasectomy at age 24…I’m not sure if that could contribute to low T or not…The doctors assured me at the time that it would not affect testosterone production.

Good to know, SeaHag. With those numbers, I have no doubt that you are a bonefide moose.

I see people like this in the gym. They have no pronounced taper or aesthetic and they look a bit untrained,., but they toss heavy weight around like an after-thought. They usually have thick ankles and wrists and communicate power just by standing there.

Yes, vasectomies do not affect T levels. The sperm is just re-directed to another highway. “Okay, fellas, exit here.” It’s not castration.

If you’re in earnest about the T, re-double your pursuit and don’t take your initial doctor’s decision as the final word. I think HRT can be most helpful to men like you who are taking a pro-active approach to their fitness.

But it most benefits those who have clear and inarguably low T. The “mid-rangers” face a two steps forward, one and a half steps back dynamic when they go on.

Good training to you.

Thanks again Plowman. Funny how I brought up a year old low T post, instead of starting my own, as forum etiquette suggests, and most of the responses were to the old post. :wink:

I am about through with the first course of HOT-ROX and need to reorder soon. I like what I read about the Rez-V and Alpha Male, so I will try a stack with the two of them this time around and see how my results are…

At the least, hopefully, my wife will be ‘satisfied’ with the results…lol.

Sorry, double post…

One more thing that crossed my mind and may have effected my test results.

I took my physical after an overnight shift, where I had to fast from Midnight on till 9am…I get off work at 6am and went straight to the gym for a workout until 7:30am.

Would a low T result possibly be from some of the biological processes following a strenuous workout?