T Nation

Need a Cutting Cycle with No Pump, Race Motocross


#1

So basically I want to run a mild cutting cycle but be able to race motocross and participate in mma. Essentially muscle endurant sports. I've ran 4 cycles before, great results in regards to muscle gain and strength and all, but killer pumps that made my fore arms go numb when riding a dirt bike. Super dangerous, almost crashed and it was hell.

So, I began researching athletic and endurance based cycles for sports like cycling, boxing, mma,etc. Sounds like equipoise is the way to go, combined with a low dose test base as always. Maybe throw in some winny for fun.

BUT, here's the PROBLEM- apparently eq is the choice steroid for endurance due to its notable ability to increase epo, which increases red blood cell count, which inturn can deliver more oxygen to your muscles. Sounds all dandy... BUT!!! the higher your red blood cell count is, the GREATER YOUR BLOOD VISCOSITY IS! Red blood count, At high levels, your blood can be 10 times thicker than water! Thus decreases blood flow, and reducing oxygen delivery, defeating the entire fkking purpose! I'm super confused!

And to top it off, anadrol does the same thing in regards to Red blood cell increase, and gave the biggest pumps ever! anadrol is by no means an endurance steroid, and it does the same shit. Pumps are great for bodybuilding, but Not good for muscle endurance, you lose range of motion and cramp stuff! So how can eq be the best steroid for endurance atheletes!? What can I run for about 10 weeks and be able to lean out a bit and gain a bit of muscle Without sacrificing my ability to race motocross?

Water consumption does not dilute blood and make it thinner, aspirin didn't help last time. Thanks for your input.


#2

There was a study posted on here in another thread that stated that RBC only got dangerously high on doses exceeding 800mg/wk of EQ. Most guys running a regular 600mg/wk EQ cycle for 12-14 weeks seemed to do fine (obvious increase but not to the dangerous levels). Also remember that test increase RBC also.

Of course, it is smart to get bloodwork done during cycle. If you run a high dosage I would get bloodwork done every 4 weeks and if RBC is dangerous then donate blood. Also you can take baby aspirin daily to try to thin the blood out. Some people even go as far as saying drink pineapple juice, take high doses of fish oil, etc.

All about how much you’re willing to risk. For some reason I reacted horrible to EQ, but if I could I would be running it at 800-1000mg/wk right now, watching my blood levels of course and taking necessary precautions so I don’t get a stroke.


#3

[quote]nooberific wrote:
There was a study posted on here in another thread that stated that RBC only got dangerously high on doses exceeding 800mg/wk of EQ. Most guys running a regular 600mg/wk EQ cycle for 12-14 weeks seemed to do fine (obvious increase but not to the dangerous levels). Also remember that test increase RBC also.

Of course, it is smart to get bloodwork done during cycle. If you run a high dosage I would get bloodwork done every 4 weeks and if RBC is dangerous then donate blood. Also you can take baby aspirin daily to try to thin the blood out. Some people even go as far as saying drink pineapple juice, take high doses of fish oil, etc.

All about how much you’re willing to risk. For some reason I reacted horrible to EQ, but if I could I would be running it at 800-1000mg/wk right now, watching my blood levels of course and taking necessary precautions so I don’t get a stroke.[/quote]

what study was that? i didn’t know that any human studies were ever done with EQ…


#4

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]nooberific wrote:
There was a study posted on here in another thread that stated that RBC only got dangerously high on doses exceeding 800mg/wk of EQ. Most guys running a regular 600mg/wk EQ cycle for 12-14 weeks seemed to do fine (obvious increase but not to the dangerous levels). Also remember that test increase RBC also.

Of course, it is smart to get bloodwork done during cycle. If you run a high dosage I would get bloodwork done every 4 weeks and if RBC is dangerous then donate blood. Also you can take baby aspirin daily to try to thin the blood out. Some people even go as far as saying drink pineapple juice, take high doses of fish oil, etc.

All about how much you’re willing to risk. For some reason I reacted horrible to EQ, but if I could I would be running it at 800-1000mg/wk right now, watching my blood levels of course and taking necessary precautions so I don’t get a stroke.[/quote]

what study was that? i didn’t know that any human studies were ever done with EQ…[/quote]

Let me rephrase, im not 100% sure it was a scientific study done by an accredited source.

I know I saw it on here. It showed that at over 800mg/wk RBC increased a huge amount in the first 4-6 weeks when compared to 600mg/wk dosage where RBC started getting a little high much longer into the cycle. When I get home I will find it. I know I saw this posted on here not too long ago in one of the threads.


#5

Thanks, i’M actually not worried about dangerously high rbc levels, I’ve ran 750 test e, 400 tren a, with 800 eq and was fine. But like I’ve been saying, ridiculous pumps. Of course all those compounds were run in high amounts. I’m thinking 250 test cyp, 375 eq and that should keep rbc levels up for performance but not too high where it increases the blood viscosity


#6

Does anyone know a muscle endurance, performance enhancing cycle or what? Like a cycle a boxer, mixed martial artist, or road cyclist would use…?


#7

What about test/mast? Very lean gains and if you’re already very lean you’ll get that shredded look. Good for quick recovery.

Watch for balding and prostate issues…


#8

[quote]cannondelts wrote:
Does anyone know a muscle endurance, performance enhancing cycle or what? Like a cycle a boxer, mixed martial artist, or road cyclist would use…?
[/quote]

most of those guys run mild (300-ish) test, and prolly some hGH.


#9

Yes hgh would be sweet, but it’s too expensive. That’s why Manny Pacquiao has 8 inch wrists lol. How much growth would be performance enhancing without sides? Like just for record and leaning out, not muscular growth which is in the 10-20 iu a day range


#10

*recovery


#11

[quote]cannondelts wrote:
Yes hgh would be sweet, but it’s too expensive. That’s why Manny Pacquiao has 8 inch wrists lol. How much growth would be performance enhancing without sides? Like just for record and leaning out, not muscular growth which is in the 10-20 iu a day range[/quote]

every boxer i’ve run into has massive wrists… i guess it comes in handy when you punch people in the face for a living!

as far as hGH, i can’t afford it either, but the GHRP’s are interesting. there’s a new oral active product called MK-677 that is interesting, as it raises GH quite a bit. not as much as real hGH, but it’s cheaper, has less side effects and might be more suitable for athletes who want more subtle effects.


#12

[quote]cannondelts wrote:
So basically I want to run a mild cutting cycle but be able to race motocross and participate in mma. Essentially muscle endurant sports. I’ve ran 4 cycles before, great results in regards to muscle gain and strength and all, but killer pumps that made my fore arms go numb when riding a dirt bike. Super dangerous, almost crashed and it was hell.

So, I began researching athletic and endurance based cycles for sports like cycling, boxing, mma,etc. Sounds like equipoise is the way to go, combined with a low dose test base as always. Maybe throw in some winny for fun.

BUT, here’s the PROBLEM- apparently eq is the choice steroid for endurance due to its notable ability to increase epo, which increases red blood cell count, which inturn can deliver more oxygen to your muscles. Sounds all dandy… BUT!!! the higher your red blood cell count is, the GREATER YOUR BLOOD VISCOSITY IS! Red blood count, At high levels, your blood can be 10 times thicker than water! Thus decreases blood flow, and reducing oxygen delivery, defeating the entire fkking purpose! I’m super confused!

And to top it off, anadrol does the same thing in regards to Red blood cell increase, and gave the biggest pumps ever! anadrol is by no means an endurance steroid, and it does the same shit. Pumps are great for bodybuilding, but Not good for muscle endurance, you lose range of motion and cramp stuff! So how can eq be the best steroid for endurance atheletes!? What can I run for about 10 weeks and be able to lean out a bit and gain a bit of muscle Without sacrificing my ability to race motocross?

Water consumption does not dilute blood and make it thinner, aspirin didn’t help last time. Thanks for your input.

[/quote]

First, you don’t have a clue on what’s going on here, so stop talking and start listening.

Chemicals alone don’t increase endurance any more than they help you out with riding technique. They allow you to train more which helps you gain endurance capacity. You have to put in the training.

Red blood cells on their own allow your body to transport more oxygen. This does help your endurance (and recovery) capacity. Thick blood does not reduce blood flow, it increases blood pressure. When it gets high enough you develop left ventricle (heart) hypertrophy and/or a stroke. You damned well better care about your RBC, because it’s important. Hydration does make a difference in terms of your hematocrit number, but in terms of a stroke, it may be a mixed bag. More hydration often means higher blood pressure, but less of a chance for accidental clotting. At the end of the day, a high RBC can be a serious problem. Aspirin does reduce clotting, but it’s not going to show up on a blood test as a RBC reduction.

Here’s the deal. You’re getting arm pump because of shitty riding technique. Motocross is tough, but you’ve got to be relaxed while doing it. Some of the answer is getting your bike setup figured out, that will help. Spending money on a good mechanic/tuner could be a better investment than chemicals.

Overall, though, what you’ve got to get dialed is food and training. If your diet is absolutely on point, your training is smart and your equipment is right, then think about chemicals. When you’re in the situation that your limiting factor is your bodies natural endocrine system, then you can give yourself a boost. There are no magic bullets.


#13

uh, actually AAS can increase satellite cells (possibly semi-permanently) in both type I and II muscle fibers. and thyroid hormones can increase mitochondrial function, as well. along with the increase in RBC, they very well CAN increase endurance…


#14

We may or may not agree, let me explain my position.

Take a body builder for an example. If someone is uneducated, they may know that pro body builders run a lot of gear so they think, “I can run a lot of steroids and get huge.” They don’t. Body builders get big from eating a shitload of (generally high quality) food and doing a huge volume of hypertrophy training. The food is what allows the BB to gain mass. The hypertrophy training is what grows specific muscles. The gear comes into play after the other stuff is sorted. It allows the BB to recover from such a massive amount of training and it allows them to build their mass with a very favorable muscle/fat ratio. In the end, though, it is just a mechanism that allows the BB to get where he wants to go, but it doesn’t make things happen on it’s own. If it was as easy as just pushing a plunger, there would be a hell of a lot of Ronnie Coleman’s walking around! A natural BB (if there is such of creature) can either get as big as a chemical BB or as lean as a chemical BB, but not both.

OK, so we now go to the endurance athlete. I contend that the only way to gain endurance performance is to do endurance training. The endurance athlete will have to eat a bunch of (generally high quality)food to do all of this endurance work. They aren’t trying to gain mass, they’re just fueling activity and maintaining the muscle they have. As you do endurance training, you get better at it. In this case, the arm pump goes away because form and skill goes up. I completely agree that muscles gain endurance properties (such as mitrocondrial density, lactic acid mobilization, etc.); however, as you do excessive amounts of endurance work you have to deal with systematic inflammation, muscle catabolism and an overall crash of the endocrine system. Gear helps fix this. Test and Cortizone go a long way to allow a person to put in long hours of training and not crumple into a ball of ash at the end of the day.

A by-product of some steroids (Test, Equ, etc.) is an increased red blood cell count. This is a true boost to overall endurance capacity. By its very nature, endurance performance is aerobic in nature. It burns oxygen. Red blood cells transport oxygen, so more transportation means there is more of it to burn. If your body is good at mobilizing fats (which comes from countless hours of training), then the extra oxygen from the elevated red blood cells will allow for more energy to be created through the aerobic energy pathways and you dip into the anaerobic systems less (less muscle burning and H+ to clear). My point is that, in most situations, this is a byproduct of the pharmaceutical as opposed to the end goal (EPO being the exception).

So, at the end of the day, I don’t think there is any chemical that will automatically give you better endurance ability. There are many chemicals that will allow you to develop endurance capacity in a quicker time frame and to a higher degree than natural, but this will only come though long hours of training and getting every other piece of the puzzle completely sorted.


#15

huh?

you contradicted yourself several times, and in no way disproved what i said…


#16

I wasn’t trying to disprove anything you said.

Good talk.


#17

[quote]Fat Boy 33 wrote:
I wasn’t trying to disprove anything you said.

Good talk.[/quote]

whatever dude.

you’re the one that claimed AAS can’t increase endurance…


#18

Not sure why you said stop talking and start listening when I’m asking questions… anyways, I think your slightly misunderstanding me. I can race motocross just fine when I’m off cycle. Thats Not an issue, it’s when I am on cycle, suddenly, night and day difference, arm pump comes out of nowhere. basically, I can ride fine natural, but I want to ride fine with huge delts lol.

my bike suspension was proffesionaly setup,sag, rear linkage, all that stuff. Its simply the kind of compounds I used fucked my endurance. And I know an ifbb pro bodybuilder, he doesn’t know shit about performance cycles like a boxer would use. As far as getting big, yes he eats every 2 hours, but he uses 23 iu of gh every day, and slin before and after a workout, as well as on a bulk, 1000 sust, 800 test e, 800 deca, intermitan drol every 4 weeks, painless pump oil (alternative to synthol) and hcg while on. Don’t try to preach about body builders not using a ton of gear because 23 iu of gh a day is fucking nuts.


#19

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Fat Boy 33 wrote:
I wasn’t trying to disprove anything you said.

Good talk.[/quote]

whatever dude.

you’re the one that claimed AAS can’t increase endurance…[/quote]

but yet he also said they could, in the same post.

Strong asset for the forum


#20

I love the “I know a pro and this is what he uses” chat.

We ALL know a pro.