I’m 27 years old, 5’9", been training off and on for 5 years, serious lifting for nearly 2. Went from 180 at 15% bf january 2012 to 225 at 18% bf july 2013.
Could I be close to genetic potential, and if so or not, does it sound like an appropriate time for a cycle of Test-E or similar in the near future, say, 6 months from now?
I have my first SPF powerlifting meet coming in December, thinking about trying something after that…
If powerlifting is your goal it would be pretty helpful for you to post to your current maxes as to gauge honestly how much you have progressed. I doubt your close to your genetic potential atleast guessing off your body comp. None the less post up your maxes. I do how ever feel your are in a good position to run a cycle atleast off the little information posted above. I recommend you start 12 weeks out from the meet and go something along these lines.
Week 1-4
1000mg of Test E
Dbol 50mg daily
Week 5-8
1000mg Test E
Week 9-Comp Week
1000mg Test E
40mg Halo ( Yes it has been shown to be toxic but your only running 3-4 weeks and nothing beats it in my opinion )
PCT Standard Nolva 40/40/20/20
Have AI and extra SERMs on hand.
Have fun and kill it.
Thanks for the reply. I’m newish to powerlifting, bench 310, Squat 475, Deadlift 450…I’d like to see a 400+ shirted bench, 600 full geared squat, and 500 deadlift by the meet, although…I’ve had several people recommend the cycle BEFORE the meet, as you say. I’d thought about going natural for my first to see how naturally strong I am before any cycling, then start immediately afterwards.
I’d heard just a cycle of test was a good starter, you recommend a stack right off the bat?
[quote]xenomorph8472 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I’m newish to powerlifting, bench 310, Squat 475, Deadlift 450…I’d like to see a 400+ shirted bench, 600 full geared squat, and 500 deadlift by the meet, although…I’ve had several people recommend the cycle BEFORE the meet, as you say. I’d thought about going natural for my first to see how naturally strong I am before any cycling, then start immediately afterwards.
I’d heard just a cycle of test was a good starter, you recommend a stack right off the bat?[/quote]
Why? You already know how naturally strong you are naturally at this time you have 310 bench, 475 squat, and 450 deadlift… Staying natural you may have 320-330 Bench, 500 Squat, 475 Deadlift… Or you can get on and conservatively hit 360 Bench, 550 Squat, 550 Deadlift unequipped not to mention a very big increase from your gear. But its really up to you I just don’t see a point if you know your going to make the jump then why not do it now. Your more qualified than 90% of the others getting on anything.
Hell yeah I do the Test E is going to take 3 weeks to kick in so you kick start with something like DBol that kicks in very fast within just a few day. That way your not just twirling your thumbs waiting for a effect. Once the Test has fully kicked in you drop the Dbol and really start seeing your gains. Then 3-6 weeks out of a meet you add Halo if possible this stuff is great for strength and aggression. If not available then try adding in Drol. If you were not competing then I would say just the Test with Dbol kick but, the Halo can make a huge difference in your performance.
Test would be fine alone but, if serious powerlifting is your goal why not go all out and make it happen.
I’m with Reed on this one.
My first knee jerk reaction is no. I would doubt at 27 y.o. with not that much continues training you are not tapped out. I am a bit concerned about the weight you put on in 6 months. That’s a lot of weight to add if you are on gear but naturally, it tells me one of two things: 1. You are at your natural genetic potential and added a disproportionate amount of fat OR 2. You made some phenomenal gains in that time and therefore you have not reached your genetic potential.
The good new is this; get the boys some more information and they will be able to help. Please provide your current lifts and those from January. Triples my tell us more then singles.
Are you looking at this from a powerlifting or bodybuilding standpoint?
Thank you very much…I’ve considered the fact that the other guys in my westside method shop are probably all on, (all 2000+ total), haven’t brought it up directly with them, for worry they may consider me a cheater for trying so soon, so good to have the perspective.
Thanks again!
[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
I’m with Reed on this one.
My first knee jerk reaction is no. I would doubt at 27 y.o. with not that much continues training you are not tapped out. I am a bit concerned about the weight you put on in 6 months. That’s a lot of weight to add if you are on gear but naturally, it tells me one of two things: 1. You are at your natural genetic potential and added a disproportionate amount of fat OR 2. You made some phenomenal gains in that time and therefore you have not reached your genetic potential.
The good new is this; get the boys some more information and they will be able to help. Please provide your current lifts and those from January. Triples my tell us more then singles.
Are you looking at this from a powerlifting or bodybuilding standpoint?
[/quote]
Truthfully, 1/4 powerlifting, 3/4 bodybuilding. I’m well aware that west-side style training isn’t necessarily optimal for muscle gain, which was my goal to start, but realized how pathetically weak I was with a 180 bench, 280 squat, and 275 deadlift last summer. So while I want to become strong and powerful, I still would like the “god-damn he’s huge” physique to go with it, in time.
As to gains…I have 4 pack abs at 18% bf, and many people think I’m on gear already (so I hear), so I’m sure it was at least 20-30 lbs muscle in 18 months…and that’s with dirty, dirty bulking , 4-5 calories a day, GOMAD, etc. LBM to start was 155, now its 180-185.
im confident every guy at westside is juiced to the gills except for you
[quote]xenomorph8472 wrote:
Thank you very much…I’ve considered the fact that the other guys in my westside method shop are probably all on, (all 2000+ total), haven’t brought it up directly with them, for worry they may consider me a cheater for trying so soon, so good to have the perspective.
Thanks again![/quote]
Man most guys who are on especially guys in the 2000+ totals have been on for years and I can promise most were much younger than 27 years old when they started hell most start in there early 20 and even late teens. Strongest guy I have ever gotten the priveledge to train with is 32 years old and apparently he has only ran one cycle in his entire life… and it started 13 years ago and he has not finished it yet haha.
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
im confident every guy at westside is juiced to the gills except for you[/quote]
LMAO I completely in every aspect possible believe this statement.
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
im confident every guy at westside is juiced to the gills except for you[/quote]
lol…well, it’s not “the westside” obviously…but, we’re talking 240-300 lbs dudes, who aren’t “fat”
[quote]xenomorph8472 wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
im confident every guy at westside is juiced to the gills except for you[/quote]
lol…well, it’s not “the westside” obviously…but, we’re talking 240-300 lbs dudes, who aren’t “fat” [/quote]
Then we are talking about a lot of Drugs
[quote]xenomorph8472 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I’m newish to powerlifting, bench 310, Squat 475, Deadlift 450…I’d like to see a 400+ shirted bench, 600 full geared squat, and 500 deadlift by the meet, although…I’ve had several people recommend the cycle BEFORE the meet, as you say. I’d thought about going natural for my first to see how naturally strong I am before any cycling, then start immediately afterwards.
I’d heard just a cycle of test was a good starter, you recommend a stack right off the bat?[/quote]
I can tell you if you are like most with the average genetic, there is no way you are at the top of your potential. If your goal is to total 1,500 in a powerlifting meet in the 220s, assuming you are equipped, you do not need any drugs to do that.
Most guys here come at things from their own prospective, I am no different. What I can tell you is I have been lifting hard since I was 16 y.o. My gains did not start to slow until I was 30 y.o. I topped out at 35 y.o. with my best official lifts in a powerlifting meet. That day was my “Day in the sun”, and then my lifts just would not move.
Let me ask you this; If your goal is to reach your genetic potential naturally then you have a ways to go. Remember, 90% of the work is in the last 10%. The law of diminishing returns is a cruel one. Go this route and sooner or later you will consider yourself lucky to add 10 lbs to your bench and 20 lbs to your squat and deadlift in a year.
OR
As reed suggested, jump on the wagon and see how far you can go. Drive up weight that makes other guys in the gyms eyes pop. But then you will never know what you could have done on your own.
[quote]Reed wrote:
[quote]xenomorph8472 wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
im confident every guy at westside is juiced to the gills except for you[/quote]
lol…well, it’s not “the westside” obviously…but, we’re talking 240-300 lbs dudes, who aren’t “fat” [/quote]
Then we are talking about a lot of Drugs[/quote]
Haha good to know…thanks guys.
[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
90% of the work is in the last 10%
OR
But then you will never know what you could have done on your own.
[/quote]
Fuck. Same old interal argument I’ve been battled in for past few months…I’ll have to make up my own mind. Thanks a million for the perspective…good to hear all sides here.
Yeah, but these guys know their shit and can answer most any questions about gear, but you have to make those kind of decisions for yourself. Your maxes seem a tad low still at that size. I am the same height and weight as you so I understand your struggle, lean down, and lose some strength, get strong and gain too much bad weight. I think if you work hard for a year or two to keep your strength and lean down to 210ish and then you would be a better candidate because your bf% would be in the 14% range.
Don’t try to lean down fast because you will lose your strength, slow and steady over 6 months and you can drop15 lbs easy and still get stronger.
Good luck either way.
[quote]rupe8 wrote:
Yeah, but these guys know their shit and can answer most any questions about gear, but you have to make those kind of decisions for yourself. Your maxes seem a tad low still at that size. I am the same height and weight as you so I understand your struggle, lean down, and lose some strength, get strong and gain too much bad weight. I think if you work hard for a year or two to keep your strength and lean down to 210ish and then you would be a better candidate because your bf% would be in the 14% range.
Don’t try to lean down fast because you will lose your strength, slow and steady over 6 months and you can drop15 lbs easy and still get stronger.
Good luck either way.[/quote]
Appreciate it man, that does sound about right…I’ll think it all over and see where I’m at in a year or so…
I honestly don’t believe one can reach a genetic potential in 2 years of serious training, but it’s up to you.
[quote]NikH wrote:
I honestly don’t believe one can reach a genetic potential in 2 years of serious training, but it’s up to you.[/quote]
Personally, I have been lifting since I was 16 y.o. Gains got slow at about 28-30 and topped out at 35. Everything leveled out until 40, then it slowly descended.
[quote]xenomorph8472 wrote:
I’m 27 years old, 5’9", been training off and on for 5 years, serious lifting for nearly 2. Went from 180 at 15% bf january 2012 to 225 at 18% bf july 2013.
Could I be close to genetic potential, and if so or not, does it sound like an appropriate time for a cycle of Test-E or similar in the near future, say, 6 months from now?
I have my first SPF powerlifting meet coming in December, thinking about trying something after that…[/quote]
i think you have a ways to go (IRT natural progression), but are still in a good position for AAS…
with that being said, i think it’s laughable to suggest well over a gram of anabolics for a first cycle. there’s a surprising amount of research available on effective doses of anabolics… Google is your friend.