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NBA 2011-2012 Season Thread 2

I am not understanding the nene deal…

Also when healthy that nets starting 5 ain’t too shabby

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
From ESPN:

The Lakers championship run is now…

in session.[/quote]

They got an average serviceable PG and a backup’s backup C. They still have no scoring off the bench and the SF situation is still horrible. The Lakers hype is unbearable sometimes, I’m surprised we don’t hear about every shit Kobe takes.

SMH + Facepalm[/quote]

From the guy who said Lin was a top-5 PG and perennial all star? Seriously?[/quote]

I said that’s what he COULD be, as in potential ceiling. Now that Melo murdered Linsanity in cold blood we probably won’t find out what could have been. I admit I was gripped with Lin fever, but I still believe he could have put up awesome numbers if allowed to run D’Antoni’s system without the cancer of Carmelo Anthony. The numbers speak for themselves, Knicks backup unit is better than their starters. Anthony had the worst +/- on the team, they scored 12 less points per 100 possessions with him on the floor and allowed 9 more points on defense.

You’re going to say they beat crappy teams without Melo, which is only half true because they also beat the Lakers and Mavs, but the fact is they were LOSING to these same crappy teams before Melo was hurt. And now they’re losing to them again.

In lin’s best interest, he should probably play with the second unit, which is the unit he was playing with during the winning streak. He suits the second unit’s up and down spot up shooting ability more. Baron Davis is more suited to play the iso, half court style.

Just as it was too quick to call Lin the savior, its way too early to right him off, I still see alot of value in his play. Even if he plays the half court style, there is no reason to think 13-15 pts a game and 7-8 assists is out of the question.

While stats dont tell the entire story obviously since the all star break he is still averaging 15 pts and close to 8 assists a game. His rise was blown out of proportion (yes I was guilty of this) but his demise is as well.

He still shows excellent acceleration and is a good passer, he should be averaging more assists but half of these dunks he set up were to Tyson Chandler who was playing with one arm. Yes he still turns over the ball way to much and really cant shoot well, but he gets to the line, gets to the basket and could pass the rock.

Pau has a beautiful singing voice

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
From ESPN:

The Lakers championship run is now…

in session.[/quote]

They got an average serviceable PG and a backup’s backup C. They still have no scoring off the bench and the SF situation is still horrible. The Lakers hype is unbearable sometimes, I’m surprised we don’t hear about every shit Kobe takes.

SMH + Facepalm[/quote]

From the guy who said Lin was a top-5 PG and perennial all star? Seriously?[/quote]

I said that’s what he COULD be, as in potential ceiling.[/quote]

BS! From page 1:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Where we left off: Is Lin legit? What will he amount to in his career?[/quote]

Perennial all-star, top 5 PG in the league. [/quote]

You dun just called out bruh!

In all seriousness, I’m just saying this is why I rally against all extreme points, positive and negative… the answer is virtually always somewhere in between…

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
In lin’s best interest, he should probably play with the second unit, which is the unit he was playing with during the winning streak. He suits the second unit’s up and down spot up shooting ability more. Baron Davis is more suited to play the iso, half court style.

Just as it was too quick to call Lin the savior, its way too early to right him off, I still see alot of value in his play. Even if he plays the half court style, there is no reason to think 13-15 pts a game and 7-8 assists is out of the question.

While stats dont tell the entire story obviously since the all star break he is still averaging 15 pts and close to 8 assists a game. His rise was blown out of proportion (yes I was guilty of this) but his demise is as well.

He still shows excellent acceleration and is a good passer, he should be averaging more assists but half of these dunks he set up were to Tyson Chandler who was playing with one arm. Yes he still turns over the ball way to much and really cant shoot well, but he gets to the line, gets to the basket and could pass the rock.[/quote]

Most of this I agree with - but Chandler is one of the best finishers in the league, him playing with 1 arm is probably about equal to most Centers with 2 haha. So you could argue he shouldn’t necessarily be averaging more assists since he’s blessed with Chandler to begin with.

Also - Amare is supposed to be a top-3 finisher in the league? Why are all Knicks fans so hard on Carmelo and not saying shit about Amare? If they had an All Star PF right now they’d be 3rd in the East!

Don’t worry his contract is only like 3 more years at 20+ mil/year totally uninsured.

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Most of this I agree with - but Chandler is one of the best finishers in the league, him playing with 1 arm is probably about equal to most Centers with 2 haha. So you could argue he shouldn’t necessarily be averaging more assists since he’s blessed with Chandler to begin with.

Also - Amare is supposed to be a top-3 finisher in the league? Why are all Knicks fans so hard on Carmelo and not saying shit about Amare? If they had an All Star PF right now they’d be 3rd in the East!

Don’t worry his contract is only like 3 more years at 20+ mil/year totally uninsured.
[/quote]
I suppose its because Anthony is considered the bigger star/franchise guy.

Cause you’re absolutely right, it makes no sense that Amare gets a pass on his shot selection (ie. when you’ve seen him destroy an excellent post defender like Duncan in his prime, it’s gotta hurt to see him routinely settle for the pullup jumpshot) and his steadfast refusal to be a difference maker at the defensive end.

Anyway, mostly for Matty, here’s a fun read from ESPN.com on how Phil would fit with these current Knicks :slight_smile:

[i]First off, let us dispel one longtime myth about Jackson: He used the triangle offense as coach of the Los Angeles Lakers.

Everyone believes he ran his triangle offense to perfection as the Lakers’ coach, but that simply isn’t true. Indeed, it was the foundation for the offense. But just watch every shot Kobe Bryant took as a Laker in the seasons Jackson was his coach and you’ll see how often he earned his shot outside the offense, not through it. When your best player and leading scorer – and by far your highest usage player – is not running the offense, then neither is your team.

This is important to note, as Carmelo Anthony was once one of the top one-on-one players in the league, and should be again, so his presence does not mean Jackson couldn’t install the triangle as New York’s base set. And in surveying the Knicks’ current roster, there are some pieces that can fit very nicely into what Jackson likes to do on offense.

Perhaps the most vital part of the triangle is the way it uses a team’s big men, often having them hug the rim as a possession evolves. That area is the most important real estate on the court, and when two big guys who can catch, score and rebound are near the rim and ready to make a play, it is often devastating to the defense. We hear about teams needing players to stretch the floor behind the 3-point line, but that stretching works on both ends, and the triangle does exactly that with its positioning of big men.

The Knicks, with Tyson Chandler and Amare Stoudemire, have two excellent bigs who could excel in a triangle-based offense. In fact, I’d argue that it would help Stoudemire’s game immensely, forcing him to engage more inside instead of floating on the perimeter. Chandler, too, would benefit and conceivably have his best offensive season in that system.

However, the roster still would need some major adjustments, and Jackson would have to be assured those changes would be made. Jeremy Lin is the worst fit for what Jackson would want to do, as Jackson loathes turning the offense over to any one point guard. Lin is still very young, inexperienced and turnover-prone. That doesn’t mean Lin is a goner if Jackson gets hired, but his abilities clearly wouldn’t mesh well with Jackson’s offensive vision.

Jackson also has had to deal with age and health issues recently, so it’s hard to imagine Jackson wanting to take on a team that is so clearly not in the top two in the Eastern Conference. And, without some tweaks to the roster, even Jackson would struggle to get New York contending for a title. Which is why it makes sense for him to wait and see how the spring and summer develop in New York.[/i]

edit - credit that to David Thorpe, ESPN.com

Very interesting dude…it certainly has begun…I do think Amare’s contract is going to be an albatross soon, he has been playing better of late, but its obvious he doesent have the same lateral quickness and hops as he once did. Its sad actually. Well at the very least his contract isnt insured.

While he should not get a pass, I believe the general feeling is around here is that he came here last year after “the decision” and took on the challenge of coming to NY so he is someone revered here (ehem he also took a boatload of money to come here too)

Also Amare is likable, Melo for some reason, his style of play, the aura he exudes, not too mention the amount of players that we traded him for lends himself to negativity. Its not fair, because both guys are playing their hearts out.

So far so good with Woodson however, 2 wins…I wonder what they will do next year if Woodson has the knicks play great down the stretch (fingers crossed) and Phil publicly states he wants in.

You get Phil Jackson no matter what. But that’s a long-term issue, relatively speaking, because right now shit is very active. Teams are playing cyclically in an ebb and flow kind of environment. Both conferences are looking pretty contentious, more so the West than the East but the latter is heating up in the mid-tier to the bottom playoff range.

Bucks are playing surprisingly good and you just don’t know with the Knicks. I will say though, the Knicks have way too much talent to be ‘fighting’ for number 8. Had they had a better start I’d imagine they would be at least at the 4 spot and holding it comfortably. I hope they do get their shit together and solidify their position into the playoffs and maybe make a run at no. 7 or (extremely wishful thinking) no. 6.

Was just looking at league leaders, and Tyson Chandler is shooting almost 70% from the field. I don’t really care that he doesn’t do anything outside of 4 feet from the bucket. That’s fucking nuts.

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
You get Phil Jackson no matter what. But that’s a long-term issue, relatively speaking, because right now shit is very active. Teams are playing cyclically in an ebb and flow kind of environment. Both conferences are looking pretty contentious, more so the West than the East but the latter is heating up in the mid-tier to the bottom playoff range.

Bucks are playing surprisingly good and you just don’t know with the Knicks. I will say though, the Knicks have way too much talent to be ‘fighting’ for number 8. Had they had a better start I’d imagine they would be at least at the 4 spot and holding it comfortably. I hope they do get their shit together and solidify their position into the playoffs and maybe make a run at no. 7 or (extremely wishful thinking) no. 6.[/quote]

Agreed, its one thing to have limited talent and fight for the 8th seed, its another thing to have more talent on your roster than 85% of the teams in the NBA and be fighting for the 8th seed thats extremely dissapointing. 7th seed isnt totally out of the question

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
You get Phil Jackson no matter what. But that’s a long-term issue, relatively speaking, because right now shit is very active. Teams are playing cyclically in an ebb and flow kind of environment. Both conferences are looking pretty contentious, more so the West than the East but the latter is heating up in the mid-tier to the bottom playoff range.

Bucks are playing surprisingly good and you just don’t know with the Knicks. I will say though, the Knicks have way too much talent to be ‘fighting’ for number 8. Had they had a better start I’d imagine they would be at least at the 4 spot and holding it comfortably. I hope they do get their shit together and solidify their position into the playoffs and maybe make a run at no. 7 or (extremely wishful thinking) no. 6.[/quote]

Agreed, its one thing to have limited talent and fight for the 8th seed, its another thing to have more talent on your roster than 85% of the teams in the NBA and be fighting for the 8th seed thats extremely dissapointing. 7th seed isnt totally out of the question[/quote]

Talent isn’t enough though. Chemistry is unbelievably important, and guys like Anthony are the ultimate chemistry killers. The guy is a Hell of a 1-on-1 scorer, but he’s the definition of “ball stopper” and more often than not leaves his teammates standing around with their thumbs up their asses. If he’d take a step back for the betterment of the team they’d be Much better off.

The past 2 games he has (small set of games I know) I was all for the trade last year, but I have to wonder if we would be in a much better way if we held onto to the other players we traded.

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
The past 2 games he has (small set of games I know) I was all for the trade last year, but I have to wonder if we would be in a much better way if we held onto to the other players we traded.[/quote]

I said it then and I’ll say it now: it was a boneheaded trade. I especially didn’t like giving up Gallinari. But, it’s not everyday you get a shot at a top 5 player, and just about every other team in the league would’ve pulled the trigger.

It’s crazy when you thnk that both Amare and Carmelo have been thought of legimate MVP contenders for at least part of the season in the past, and now can’t do anything. They DO need to give Melo the ball more, but he needs to adapt to Lin.

I think you NEED a coach like pjax who has so much sway that guys like melo will buy into the system and play team ball and defense. Same way he was the only one who could get shaq and kobe - not cuz he has some special ability, but the respect from coaching MJ (and now Kobe.

A lot of coaches know their stuff, its just getting a bunch of millionaire athletes to actually listen to them.

Who would take Carmelo in a trade…Orlando maybe?

No one is taking Melo in a trade because Melo isn’t getting traded…

Btw dude the guy in my avatar is exponentially superior to the guy in your avatar…just sayin’…

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
No one is taking Melo in a trade because Melo isn’t getting traded…

Btw dude the guy in my avatar is exponentially superior to the guy in your avatar…just sayin’…[/quote]

I agree, it’s not even a question, Kobe is still pretty good though.

Kobe’s fro was awesome

michael jordan better than kobe?!?!?!? dont give me that carp you piece of pooh. kobe haters all over the place.

i kid. i think both are pretty awesome. love both of them for their killer instinct and desire to win against all odds. i do however think that michael’s athleticsm > kobes. but kobe’s 3 point > michael