T Nation

Natural vs Bodybuilding with Steroids

Hey you guys. I have really been working out hard lately, eating like a fiend, sleeping well, and following the mountain dog to a tee. in the last 2 and a half months I have gained 17 pounds and my strength has gone way up. Also, I do not look down upon steroids, it’s part of the sport and can be used responsibly. Anyways, if I was ever to use steroids it would be years in the future, as I am still making gains and I am only 19 years old. But my I just want to be like Franco Columbu, or Coleman or something like that. What can a person reasonably achieve without the use of steroids? Do you guys think John Meadows takes steroids?

“Steroid created muscle looks different than natural muscle.”

Everyone’s genetic potential is different and thus we do not know what you can achieve naturally through hard work, big eating, and said genetics. How about you just keep plugging away at it, bust your ass off, and in a few years if the progress you’ve made is stalling and you want to take this further, explore pharmaceutical assistance.

To look like Franco or Coleman you’ll need steroids, as for what you can do naturally take a look in Stu’s contest prep thread.

[quote]mjhq75 wrote:
Do you guys think John Meadows takes steroids?[/quote]

He’s an author here, why don’t you ask him ?

Look at Synergy, The mighty Stu, Professor X, KingBeef, MODOK, Holymac, and BugAD for big natty’s to ask advice/look up to/whatever. There are others too, those were off the top of my head.

That being said, you can learn a lot from discussions in the steroids forum too. People are too judgmental, so they tend to keep on that board when it comes to training/diet and stay off of this one.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ok here’s my take on it…

  1. I’m not one to accuse anybody of using AAS and if someone say he’s natural I will always give him the benefit of the doubt. I’ve been accused of being a AAS user myself more than I’d like to remember, so I know how it feels to be on that side of the fence.

  2. I have nothing but the utmost respect for guys like Skip, Jeff Willett, Dave Goodin and the likes.

  3. That having been said you must understand that there are no such things as “natural bodybuilding shows”… there are “drug tested bodybuilding shows”. BIG difference. A “natural” show would mean that everybody in the competition would be 100% lifetime drug free while a “drug tested” show simply means that some of the competitors will be drug tested.

Passing a drug test doesn’t mean that you never used steroids… it means that on the day of the test, you didn’t have any steroid or steroid metabolites in your system. It’s exactly like with the Olympics… they do a ton of testing and something like 1-2% of the tests are positive.

Does that mean that most olympic athletes are natural? Not a chance! It means that on the day of the test their body is free of drugs. They could have used some in the past and stopped soon enough to avoid detection; they could have used undetectable substances (IGF-1, MGF, insulin, etc.) or used masking agents.

Furthermore, at drug tested bodybuilding events they don’t always test everybody. A REAL drug test (urine analysis) costs around 500$ (for the whole pannel of banned substances).

Considering that this expense comes out of the promotors’ pocket, it is very highly unlikely that the guy will cut into his profits by having 50+ athletes tested! I’ve worked as the head of the anti-doping comittee for the Quebec Bodybuilding Federation and was responsible of arranging the drug tests with an accredited IOC lab.

Normally we had 2-5 drug tests per competition. At the national level it’s 5-7 tests. So right off the bat, if there are 50 competitors you only have a 5-12% chance of being tested (some are willing to take that chance).

Some organizations bypass that “costly” problem by using other types of drug “tests”. Some use a visual pannel: the judges scrutinize at the athletes when they register and look for obvious signs of doping (bitch tits for example). If they decide that you look “enhanced” you cannot compete.

Other organizations use a lie detector test (which is pretty easy to fool). Some will use a cheaper urine analysis test that only tests for a limited number of substances (the most commonly abused).

So while I think that everybody deserves the benefit of the doubt; we still have to remember that just because some competes in a tested show doesn’t mean that he’s natural. Heck the IFBB world championships are extensively tested (top 5 in each weight class plus some random tests) and some class winners look like top tier pros.[/quote]

quoted from

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/pictures_pics_photo_body_image_performance/biggest_natural_bodybuilder

This thread is a good read imo… check it out

[quote]mjhq75 wrote:
What can a person reasonably achieve without the use of steroids? [/quote]

It doesnt matter what a PERSON can achieve. It matters what YOU can achieve.

Worry solely about yourself and save yourself the headache.

And hopefully with age youll realize that it’s poor etiquette to question or inquire about whether someone is using ILLEGAL drugs. It’s safe to say that if someone wants their history (or lack there of) of illegal activities known to the public, they would be known.

Don’t worry about whether someone is juiced or not, people who you think are “on” prolly aren’t and vice versa.

It seem as though nattys GENERALLY have to choose between being ripped yet smaller or a bit softer and bigger.

You don’t see too many huge ripped nattys walking around imo. obviously there are exceptions

[quote]JaseHxC wrote:
How about you just keep plugging away at it, bust your ass off, and in a few years if the progress you’ve made is stalling and you want to take this further, explore pharmaceutical assistance.[/quote]

/thread

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:
Look at Synergy, The mighty Stu, Professor X, KingBeef, MODOK, Holymac, and BugAD for big natty’s to ask advice/look up to/whatever. There are others too, those were off the top of my head.

That being said, you can learn a lot from discussions in the steroids forum too. People are too judgmental, so they tend to keep on that board when it comes to training/diet and stay off of this one.[/quote]

Synergy is definitely an awesome example of a natty around these boards. Has X ever actually claimed to be natural? I thought he usually took a “not something i would discuss on the internet” stance.

[quote]mjhq75 wrote:
Hey you guys. I have really been working out hard lately, eating like a fiend, sleeping well, and following the mountain dog to a tee. in the last 2 and a half months I have gained 17 pounds and my strength has gone way up. Also, I do not look down upon steroids, it’s part of the sport and can be used responsibly. Anyways, if I was ever to use steroids it would be years in the future, as I am still making gains and I am only 19 years old. But my I just want to be like Franco Columbu, or Coleman or something like that. What can a person reasonably achieve without the use of steroids? Do you guys think John Meadows takes steroids?[/quote]

All it takes is a quick google search of pro natty comps and “other” pro comps, like the Olympia for example. Theres a pretty glaring difference between some of the best naturals like Layne Norton and then a guy like David Henry.

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
To look like Franco or Coleman you’ll need steroids, as for what you can do naturally take a look in Stu’s contest prep thread.

I 100% disagree. Ok, if you want to look like Ronnie Coleman, then yes, you will most likely need steroids. but comeon, Franco Columbo. that guy was what 190lbs. he was a small guy. both in height and stature. he was pretty big for his day. but nowadays, ive seen high school guys bigger than him. maybe not as strong, but the question was could he look like him. and ive seen many many guys not on steroids that are 40lbs bigger than him. yes, he was very lean, but with proper nutrition and todays supplements, its not all that hard to do.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
To look like Franco or Coleman you’ll need steroids, as for what you can do naturally take a look in Stu’s contest prep thread.

I 100% disagree. Ok, if you want to look like Ronnie Coleman, then yes, you will most likely need steroids. but comeon, Franco Columbo. that guy was what 190lbs. he was a small guy. both in height and stature. he was pretty big for his day. but nowadays, ive seen high school guys bigger than him. maybe not as strong, but the question was could he look like him. and ive seen many many guys not on steroids that are 40lbs bigger than him. yes, he was very lean, but with proper nutrition and todays supplements, its not all that hard to do. [/quote]

I agree with you about colombu, a short guy with REALLY good genetics can pull that off. He was fairly light weight, and had arms that werent any bigger than 18" if im not mistaken.

Funny you pick those 2 guys, Franco Columbo wasn’t big but the doses that he used back in the 70’s were no way near what they use today plus they did it more during pre contest to keep muscle and get the full look; Ronnie Coleman started as a natural body builder and even competed as a natural when he started and maxed out his considerable genetic potential, once he made some money and started using steroids he suddenly started winning the Mr. O but he competed for a few years as a natural in the pro ranks. Work out for another 3 or 4 years before even considering anything

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:
Look at Synergy, The mighty Stu, Professor X, KingBeef, MODOK, Holymac, and BugAD for big natty’s to ask advice/look up to/whatever. There are others too, those were off the top of my head.

That being said, you can learn a lot from discussions in the steroids forum too. People are too judgmental, so they tend to keep on that board when it comes to training/diet and stay off of this one.[/quote]

Synergy is definitely an awesome example of a natty around these boards. Has X ever actually claimed to be natural? I thought he usually took a “not something i would discuss on the internet” stance. [/quote]
He’s been on this board for so long and probably answered the question so many times that he just overlooks it. He’s natural.

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Has X ever actually claimed to be natural? I thought he usually took a “not something i would discuss on the internet” stance. [/quote]
One does not exclude the other. Big guys existed before steroids, remember that.

pics of high school guys that look like franco columbo please.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
To look like Franco or Coleman you’ll need steroids, as for what you can do naturally take a look in Stu’s contest prep thread.

I 100% disagree. Ok, if you want to look like Ronnie Coleman, then yes, you will most likely need steroids. but comeon, Franco Columbo. that guy was what 190lbs. he was a small guy. both in height and stature. he was pretty big for his day. but nowadays, ive seen high school guys bigger than him. maybe not as strong, but the question was could he look like him. and ive seen many many guys not on steroids that are 40lbs bigger than him. yes, he was very lean, but with proper nutrition and todays supplements, its not all that hard to do. [/quote]

I 100% disagree with your post. Most likely need steroids to look like coleman? Not all that hard to look like franco? Are we talking about the same people?

I agree there are kids bigger than him or maybe have bigger arms but they sure as hell don’t look like him.

nattys can build very impressive physiques, there are many examples on this site. But like I said in my previous post I believe most have to sacrifice leanness for size and vice versa.

I just thought you were off base using two pro bbers juiced to the gills as examples of attainable feats.

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
pics of high school guys that look like franco columbo please.[/quote]

yes,send some high school freaks pics pls…
Franco was a rock,very imo with way more muscles than Arnie.

If a lifetime natural bodybuilder can achieve a bodyweight of 3lbs for each inch of height in contest condition(or very close), they will be in rare company. I would be shocked if there were more than ten people on this site that have reached that level and could prove it!
Talk is cheap…if you have pics or video I’d love to see them.