Fowler
I see what u are saying. I just dont think the idea hold water. I dont feel that we can all expect the same exact results relative to our weight. Point out a study, I would love to read it.
Phil
There is no magic number. Plus, your numbers don’t work out. For the example you gave, the “formula” should be that you can only gain 5lbs per 100lbs. Just thought I’d be a douche and point that out.
Sorry. I don’t have a study.
My friend said it was ‘physiologically impossible to add more than 2.5kg of lean mass per 45.5kg bodyweight in one year.’
That’s all I know.
you know its a cool thread when someone calls themselves a douche.
Dr. Michael Colgan had a study out (don’t quote me on this, my book is in storage) that most trainees will gain about 12 pounds of pure LBM per year. This study was out I believe in the early 90’s and I’m sure was valid at the time. However, with the advancement of training philosophy, supplements, and the availability of better quality food(Whole Foods, etc) it is indeed possible for trainees to gain 20+ natural per year, especially a baseball player who is chronically overtrained toward the end of the season and is lifting for maintenance in-season. Post season training will be much more volume and the player will also have more time to rest for workouts, so his gains will most likely resemble that of a new trainee…but you also have to remember that the player is probably going to lose a little size through the season. If you were looking at year to year, you would also have to look at pounds lost during the season, so even if he weighed 10 pounds at the next in-season and lost 5 pounds during last in-season, that means he gained at least 15 pounds between. Sorry for the ramble…I just went out and ran for the first time in about 5 years and I forgot how amped you get. hehehe 
in the case of a pro athlete you also have to consider the fact that he has access to the best trainers, doctors, nutritionists, etc in the entire world.
i have no idea if he is juicing or not, and frnakly i dont care. but bonds’ physique is attainable naturally.
This kind of theory is what weenies tell themselves to make them feel better about themselves. Obviously, anyone who makes better progress than you is juicing.
fowler,
I have a few questions: First, what sort of education does your friend have in the field of weight training?
Would your friend say that the 10lbs of muscle that you can gain at a body weight of 190lbs. equates to a 5.2% across the board for any body weight? In other words if someone weighs 220lbs. does your friend think that he too can gain about 5.2%, or about 11.4lbs of muscle in one year?
Understand that many of the comments that you are getting are based upon your blanket statement. I think that most of us around here believe that muscle gain is individual. It is based upon the persons genetics and diet, more than any particular formula.
However, with that said I would love to hear more about your friend and his philosophy on building muscle if he is indeed qualified.
Kind of funny people keep asking if Bonds is “natural” or juicing, but nobody mentions ph/ps’s. To me this whole THG thing in baseball is an absolute joke.
People are worried about if Bonds, Sosa, McGuire etc are/were natural or not, but baseball doesn’t outlaw ph/ps’s. So it’s not okay to inject test, but it’s legal to use something that converts to test? I’m not going to try and say ph/ps’s are as potent as gear, but you can make some really nice gains on stuff like 1-test, 4-ad, 19nor, etc.
I just think it’s funny that McGuire talks about using “andro” and nobody blinks, but the headlines say, “Bonds may have used THG” and the whole thing blows up. At what point is somebody not “natural?”
Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it won’t produce some damn fine results. I have no idea what Bonds uses, but it doesn’t seem at all unreasonable to put on the mass and strength he did “legally.”
Fowler
I am not trying to bust your balls, put you down, or anything of the sort. I just feel that u have been led astray by your friend. There are just to many factors at play for each individual to be able to put a set # on the max amount of gains one could receive in a year.
For example, hormonal differences, let alone the fluxuations in hormones that each individual experiences through their lifetime. Also, not everyone is going to react the same to training, diet, stress,have the same genetic make up, etc…
Like was stated previously, by having this set limit in your head u are limiting your own progress. If u are to gain 8 lbs of LBM then you might just accept that. U figure the most u could have gained was 10 so damn 80% aint bad. Well fuck that. Dont limit yourself befor you even begin, do yourself a favor, lift your ass of, gain 15lbs of LBM and prove your friend wrong. Then shoot for twenty.
Phil
Fowler, your friend is wrong. Consider the following:
Let’s say that I carry 180lbs of lean body mass. Because of an injury or illness I must stop training for a few months and regress down to 160lbs of lean body mass. Are we to believe that it will take me 2-3 years just to get back to my initial level? That would be absurd!
For example, a lot of my hockey players loose 10-15lbs of muscle during a season, and most will gain back those pounds, and 5-10lbs more with 3-4 months of off-season training. If you could only gain 5lbs per 95lbs of lean-body mass this would be impossible.
So right off the bat your theory doesn’r hold water simply because it’s easier to gain back the muscle you lost than to gain it in the first place.
It also doesn’t hold water because of the principle of trainability: an individual will little training experience can generally gain muscle at a relatively fast rate when he first starts to train. It’s not uncommon to see beginners gain 20-30lbs of muscle in their first year of training. Obviously these gains will taper down year after year, but if it were “physiologically” impossible to build more than 5lbs per 95lbs, such progressions by beginners would be impossible.
Furthermore, plenty of scientific studies report gains in muscle mass of upward 8-12lbs in a 12-16 weeks period, even if gains would slow down after a while we could still expect gains of more than 5lbs per 95lbs.
While I do believe that there is a physiological limit when it comes to building muscle tissue, it certainly cannot be represented by an amount of pouds per year (too many things can happen within a year). The only reference I’ve seen when it comes to the physiological limit to muscle building quote something like 0.25-1.00lbs of muscle PER WEEK at the limit range at which the body can manufacture new muscle tissue. This comes up to 13-52lbs/year (the upper value being an extreme exception of course!). As you can see, this is far from precise. But I feel that it is a much more realistic view than to say that you can only hope to gain 5lbs per 95lbs of lean body mass.
Woo hoo. And CT comes swooping down for the save.
Kewl.
Thanks for jumping in CT!
The 5 to 95 ratio sounds like fowler’s friend studies with the cousin of the friend of the guy who wrote that once we stop lifing our muscles will turn to fat, and all that silly weight lifting is doing is making us slow and muscle bound.
I’ll ask my friend for a proper explanation of this theory of his. I’ll get back to you.
And even though my frinds theory may be bs, I’d be happy with a 10lbs lean mass gain each year. I’m 200lbs now, so that would mean I could be 250 in five years.
In reality though, I’ll probably never gain that much in five years.
I have second hand knowledge, in McGuire’s case, that agent actually sent someone into USC training room to show him the proper way to stick himself.
Sammy–what?
if your not cheating, your not trying!
who said bonds is gonna get busted? do you know how important he is to baseball, from a monetary standpoint? he aint goin nowhere. mcguire had andro as a cover up. the only reason an athlete gets busted for juicing is when “the man” wants to show the public he wont stand for an illegal, unfair advantage so he busts some second or third tier player [don mclean in the NBA, anyone?] to make it look like he’s on top of things. no “star” player in any sport will ever get in any serious trouble for braking the rules, at least not in the foreseable future.
fowler, just admit your friends wrong boss. i’d say over half the people on this forum have gained over 10lbs of “clean” muscle in a span of a couple months, nevermind a whole year. does he think one can only digest 30g of protein per sitting?
yall be good, flash
Owned.