T Nation

Natural BB Resources?

I am looking for some “Old school” (pre-steroid) bodybuilding resources. I am interested in bodybuilding now that have gained some mass and strength (see profile pics before posting immature comments). I am looking for routines that worked before steroids, protein shakes and creatine. Like the routines from the 40’s.

I don’t beleive there is pro bodybuilder alive past the 50’s that did not juice to some degree. Yes I have used the search function to this site and found alot of great info, especially from Thib (he seems to be more BB oriented). Let me know of any websites or books that you guys have found beneficial.
Thanks.

Why are you looking for outdated information?

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Why are you looking for outdated information? [/quote]

Because clearly, anyone who has made gains in the past 60 years is juicing.

Because you would know that their physiques were not the product of drugs/chemicals etc. If it worked back then, it would work now. Some of the things I have picked up seemed very contradictory to what is done today. Many lifters just ate real food three times a day and lifted full body three times a week. I can find bits of info, but no detailed programs etc. I am not just looking to gain mass, (anyone can do that). I want to create a physique.

[quote]Brett Tucek wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
Why are you looking for outdated information?

Because clearly, anyone who has made gains in the past 60 years is juicing.[/quote]

Not anyone, I said any pro BB’er since the 50’s or so has juiced to some degree whether they admit it or not.

All the routines here work without steroids.

With steroids, they just work more.

Nice attempt at provocation.

[quote]Imen de Naars wrote:
All the routines here work without steroids.

With steroids, they just work more.

Nice attempt at provocation.[/quote]

Why is asking a question about bodybuilding considered provocation?? I said I found some good bodybuilding info on this site, but I am looking for more. Why do you have a problem with that??

Uh-oh; you’ve made the juicers angry. A good website for the past (Sandow’s era) and bodybuilding, I suggest going to http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/.

[quote]ocn2000 wrote:
I am not just looking to gain mass, (anyone can do that). I want to create a physique.[/quote]

Sounds like something a 170 pound insecure pinner would say.

[quote]tpa wrote:
ocn2000 wrote:
I am not just looking to gain mass, (anyone can do that). I want to create a physique.

Sounds like something a 170 pound insecure pinner would say.
[/quote]

Apparently you did not check out my profile pic before you posted. Just because I don’t want to be a powerlifter and I don’t play sports, why does that make me insecure? Besides, what is a “pinner”. At least you have a physique worth posting a picture about. As opposed to the other posters on this thread. I wonder why you did not just say “Hey, this is what I do and it has worked for me” instead or resorting to being a smart ass?
Thanks for the Sandow link.

If you intelligently move progressively heavier weights over time while consuming lots of manfood and getting adequate rest you will get bigger and stronger.

It was true when the slaves built the pyramids, it was true when Nero trained his gladiators, it was true when the early settlers farmed North America, it was true in the pre steroid 20th century and it was true 5 minutes ago. No esoteric routines needed. As mentioned above, drugs just remove some of the limitations.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Why are you looking for outdated information? [/quote]

Because I don’t want an outdated body like the one you are sporting in your profile. I would like to work towards a balanced “ideal” physique, like, well, gee, many of the old school bodybuilders used to have! They were not massive, but had great balance,symmetry and shape. If I am going to be in the gym working out anyway, why not work towards a goal that “I” want to acheive, rather than someone elses? I am surprised that this site is so anti bodybuilding.

Also checkout www.ironage.us

So you think reading books from the 40’s will give you an awesome physique? Are you silly, stupid, a moron or an imbecile.

It was probably not a good idea to call my neighbor an outdated body. I fail to see how a body can be outdated. Or how you can dream up an ideal physique. You don’t know your genetics, your limits, or even the slightest bit what you can do if you pushed for it. Especially if you were looking for help from people who build natural physiques on a daily basis, it’s not a good idea to come out with thtat kind of attitude.

Here, I will give you one clue. There is no difference between building a natural or a non natural physique. The diet, training, rest periods, sets/reps, tempo all are basically the same. An enhanced physique will simply recover quicker and progress a little quicker.

Last thing. Developing one of those physiques is not something you do while “in the gym working out anyway”. It is a lifetime pursuit. The old BB’s dedicated their lives to building and maintaining those bodies. They were not built in a gym. They were built 27/7/365 with nothing but hard work and dedication.

[quote]ocn2000 wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
Why are you looking for outdated information?

Because I don’t want an outdated body like the one you are sporting in your profile. I would like to work towards a balanced “ideal” physique, like, well, gee, many of the old school bodybuilders used to have! They were not massive, but had great balance,symmetry and shape. If I am going to be in the gym working out anyway, why not work towards a goal that “I” want to acheive, rather than someone elses? I am surprised that this site is so anti bodybuilding.[/quote]

[quote]ocn2000 wrote:
Because I don’t want an outdated body like the one you are sporting in your profile. I would like to work towards a balanced “ideal” physique, like, well, gee, many of the old school bodybuilders used to have! They were not massive, but had great balance,symmetry and shape. If I am going to be in the gym working out anyway, why not work towards a goal that “I” want to acheive, rather than someone elses? I am surprised that this site is so anti bodybuilding.[/quote]

If you wanna get into profiles yours says that you’ve been training 20 years and weigh 175. Unless you’re shorter than 5’6 or consider a thighmaster “training” or have been living on tofu, 20 years hasn’t gotten you much. I’m really not trying to be asshole, but what magic formula do you hope to find in the days of yore that will remedy 20 years of unproductive “training”?

How is it “anti bodybuilding” to acknowledge that some slight advances may have been made since Samson downed the temple?

The fact that some bodybuilders of years gone by had great pysiques does not mean that their routines work better for the natural body builder than modern routines.

It just means that the pre-juice bodybuilders had good genetics to completment their routines.

Bottom line: If you are genetically pre-disposed to having a muscular, well porportioned body, then the new or the old training routines will work. If you’re not, then diet & exercise (new AND old routines) will only take you so far without adding steroids.

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
So you think reading books from the 40’s will give you an awesome physique? Are you silly, stupid, a moron or an imbecile.

It was probably not a good idea to call my neighbor an outdated body. I fail to see how a body can be outdated. Or how you can dream up an ideal physique. You don’t know your genetics, your limits, or even the slightest bit what you can do if you pushed for it. Especially if you were looking for help from people who build natural physiques on a daily basis, it’s not a good idea to come out with thtat kind of attitude.

Here, I will give you one clue. There is no difference between building a natural or a non natural physique. The diet, training, rest periods, sets/reps, tempo all are basically the same. An enhanced physique will simply recover quicker and progress a little quicker.

Last thing. Developing one of those physiques is not something you do while “in the gym working out anyway”. It is a lifetime pursuit. The old BB’s dedicated their lives to building and maintaining those bodies. They were not built in a gym. They were built 27/7/365 with nothing but hard work and dedication.

ocn2000 wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
Why are you looking for outdated information?

Because I don’t want an outdated body like the one you are sporting in your profile. I would like to work towards a balanced “ideal” physique, like, well, gee, many of the old school bodybuilders used to have! They were not massive, but had great balance,symmetry and shape. If I am going to be in the gym working out anyway, why not work towards a goal that “I” want to acheive, rather than someone elses? I am surprised that this site is so anti bodybuilding.

[/quote]

I did not say “reading a book” would do it. The book would be a resource of info.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
ocn2000 wrote:
Because I don’t want an outdated body like the one you are sporting in your profile. I would like to work towards a balanced “ideal” physique, like, well, gee, many of the old school bodybuilders used to have! They were not massive, but had great balance,symmetry and shape. If I am going to be in the gym working out anyway, why not work towards a goal that “I” want to acheive, rather than someone elses? I am surprised that this site is so anti bodybuilding.
If you wanna get into profiles yours says that you’ve been training 20 years and weigh 175. Unless you’re shorter than 5’6 or consider a thighmaster “training” or have been living on tofu, 20 years hasn’t gotten you much. I’m really not trying to be asshole, but what magic formula do you hope to find in the days of yore that will remedy 20 years of unproductive “training”?

How is it “anti bodybuilding” to acknowledge that some slight advances may have been made since Samson downed the temple?[/quote]

I am 5 foot 4 and a half so deal with it. I have been lifting weights for a long time, with many breaks, for many different goals, with many different injuries or health problems. I obviously have not been non stop training the whole time. In reality, who has?? My training has been productive. I have gotten strong, much bigger than when I started, I have enhanced my sports performance (back when I was involved in sports) gotten laid etc.
I have competed in track in field, judo, wrestling, kickboxing, weightlifting.
I had a double bodyweight bench press at one time, could do 22 dead hang pullups with no kipping, dips with 90 lbs around the waist/pullups with 50 lbs around the waist. I am not some 15 year old kid who needs to “come back when I weight over 200 lbs.” I built the body I have working out for other goals. Imagine what I could acheive if I focused on bodybuilding/physique as a goal, not a byproduct of my training. With the rationals and immaturity of some of the responses, I wonder how you guys even hold down jobs. Remember, I started the post just looking for a couple of websites/books. Not to start a shit storm. But if you want it, you got it!!

I am merely looking to get into bodybuilding as my main focus for working out and don’t want to waste my time with a 30 set bicep routine like Lee Preist when I am not juicing. It won’t work for a natural trainee. Besides, there is more to the physique than sheer size and bench press numbers. Tribulus, I noticed that your profile is devoid of any pics. Good or bad. If you think that my 20 years has not gotten me much lets see what you’ve got…

I don’t know why you showed up here with such a chip on your shoulder. I stand corrected that’s all. Not the first time and not the last. I’ll post pictures when I’m ready, I’m not getting into my whole story here again. Suffice it to say that I’m quite happy with my progress thus far since I’ve started training again.

Why not just say something like “hey guys, I’ve been very involved in athletics for years and have decided to turn my attention to physique oriented training. How have some of you non enhanced folks gotten good results?” Why this immediate assumption that anyone who made any progress after 1965 is either juiced or has studiously avoided any training method that’s not at least 40 years old?

I don’t know everything there is about training, but I know how to build myself some muscle and I’ll take good info from any source no matter how old or recent. Try calming down and joining us here instead of picking fights right off the bat. You may be shocked to discover that some guys here know a thing or 2 that just may help you out.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I don’t know why you showed up here with such a chip on your shoulder. I stand corrected that’s all. Not the first time and not the last. I’ll post pictures when I’m ready, I’m not getting into my whole story here again. Suffice it to say that I’m quite happy with my progress thus far since I’ve started training again.

Why not just say something like “hey guys, I’ve been very involved in athletics for years and have decided to turn my attention to physique oriented training. How have some of you non enhanced folks gotten good results?” Why this immediate assumption that anyone who made any progress after 1965 is either juiced or has studiously avoided any training method that’s not at least 40 years old?

I don’t know everything there is about training, but I know how to build myself some muscle and I’ll take good info from any source no matter how old or recent. Try calming down and joining us here instead of picking fights right off the bat. You may be shocked to discover that some guys here know a thing or 2 that just may help you out.[/quote]

Dude, that is what I did, I just asked for some natural BB sources. That is all. Every one else started in with …
that is outdated…
not everyone who gains is on roids…
you can’t build a body reading a book…
I did not say any of that crap. I mean damn, I laid out what I wanted and why in my first post. I even asked folks to check my pic/profile, see that I was not a 98 lb weakling and that I have some background before I got twenty replies of “squats and milk” or some similar BS. If that is what I really needed then it would be fine. I could even appreciate the responses like “there is no difference in natural or juiced training, you just recover better”.
Thanks for the links and the PM’s of good info. If you got your feelings hurt, get over it and good luck with your training. I am signing off from this thread.