T Nation

Natural BB First Cycle Help


#1

What's up guys,

Looking to do my first cycle with Test E and Dbol. I have been training for a while naturally and am just looking to ascend to the next level of my BB career. I was wondering if you guys could critique and give me some advice.

Here are some stats:
Age: 25 (lifting for 6 years, actual BB for 1 year now)
Height: 5'11
Weight: 212
BF: 15%

Bench: 225x10, 245x5, 275x2
Squat: 305x10, 355x5
DL: 495x1
Seated Military (behind neck): 225x1

Diet:

450g of protein every day. Every 2 hours I eat 50g of lean protein and around 100g of carbs. Usually around 6-7 meals a day (excluding shakes). As you can see I am bulking, but haven't really gained to much BF yet. I might carb cycle and get to a cut 200 with around 10% bf before I do the cycle.

Cycle

Weeks 1-4: Dbol 30mg ED
Weeks 1-12: 500mg Test E (250mgMonday AM & 250mgThursday PM)
Weeks 1-12: Aromasin .5mg ED
Week 1-18: IronMagLabs Advanced Cycle Support

----Two week off after last pin-----
PCT

Week 15: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 16: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 17: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 18: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily

Questions...

-What should I up the Aromasin to if I star to get gyno symptoms? 1.25mg?
-Should I continue taking the Aromasin in the two weeks I take off before starting PCT?

Also, I know many will say I should only run Test E to see the affects of it alone but by the time the Test E kicks in I will be done with the dbol, I think I will be able to see the affects of the compounds seperately still.

Let me know what you guys think!


#2

I think many people would advocate sticking the dbol at the end rather than the beginning. After several weeks myostatin expression limits gains and at that point people either up doses or swap drugs, etc.

Also I think you may be confusing aromasin with arimidex. The dose for aromasin I believe to be much higher than .5mg daily, my aromasin is 12.5mg/ml and I would dose that 2x per day for 25mg daily.

Arimidex is much more potent and in fact .5mg ED is a bit much, I would opt to begin at .25mg ED or .5mg EOD.

That being said its not so much gyno symptoms you are trying to combat with AI, it is the deleterious effects of elevated estrogen in the male body you are trying to combat, although AI does prevent gyno to an extent.

You should adjust your dosage according to how you feel; you don't want high estrogen but you don't want rock bottom estrogen either. If you feel a libido drop and have some water bloat, your estrogen is too high. If you have a libido loss and dry or achy joints then your estrogen is too low.

If you do experience gyno, take some nolvadex during cycle until it subsides. 25mg/day works well for me.

As far as when to discontinue AI use, if it is arimidex, I would taper off during the two weeks that the test is clearing your system before you begin PCT, and don't use it during PCT. If it is aromasin, I would still taper off it during those two weeks, but if you feel any kind of estrogen rebound during pct, you can take some (12.5mg/day) to help out. Now, expect to feel some kind of drop during pct, but if you libido tanks or you start getting soft and watery real fast then you can have some.

The reason behind not using one over the other is in their mechanisms of action, and this is simply my understanding I could be incorrect. Aromasin kills the aromatase enzyme itself, so the levels of it available are reduced until you build more. Arimidex interferes with the aromatization at the site, so it blocks T to E conversion, but the enzyme is still floating around, potentially at a higher level. So while arimidex is more effective, its better for consistent use whereas aromasin can be used intermittently. If I'm wrong someone feel free to correct me.


#3

Hey man,

Thanks for the detailed reply. From what I gathered, I have amended by AI to the correct dosages, let me know what you think below. Also, I have never heard/seen anyone do dbol at the end of the their cycle. I was using it as a kick-start before the test e hit my system fully. The hope was that once the dbol was done after 4 weeks test e would be there to keep my gains.

Check this:

Cycle

Weeks 1-4: Dbol 30mg pday
Weeks 1-12: 500mg Test E (250mgMonday AM & 250mgThursday PM)
Weeks 1-12: Arimidex .5mg EOD
Week 1-18: IronMagLabs Advanced Cycle Support

Week 13-14: No gear except for Arimidex .25 EOD (tapering off)

PCT

Week 15: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 16: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 17: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 18: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily


#4

You're correct. Good post

This is very important to know for people that want to run a cycle using arimidex throughout and then run a clomid only pct; estrogen rebound will likely be an issue.


#5

How does this look then? Arimdiex dosage look fine? Also...I want to do dbol at the start so that once dbol is done the test e will be there to keep my gains. Its basically a "kick-start".

Cycle

Weeks 1-4: Dbol 30mg pday
Weeks 1-12: 500mg Test E (250mgMonday AM & 250mgThursday PM)
Weeks 1-12: Arimidex .5mg EOD
Week 1-18: IronMagLabs Advanced Cycle Support

Week 13-14: No gear except for Arimidex .25 EOD (tapering off)

PCT

Week 15: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 16: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 17: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 18: Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily


#6

your body is constantly producing more aromatase.. the whole "suicide inhibition" property of aromasin is meaningless.

letro/adex are superior


#7

thanks for the clarity


#8

Looks good to me, again front loading is cool and all, but the idea is that after several weeks your gains will slow to a halt, and in order to continue making use of remaining weeks its advisable to increase dosages or include more drugs to continue making progress. You could try to increase test doses as well towards the end of the cycle.

Another point I'd like to make is a preference of mine for shorter esters. If you don't mind the more frequent injections, it allows you to keep more stable blood levels, hits your system faster and clears your system faster. The 2 week waiting period between last injection and pct seems to be an eternity to me, whereas test prop clears in a few days. This becomes more prevalent for things that half short active lives such as tren acetate. In fact, regardless of the ester length, more frequent injections allow for more stable blood levels, think about how it releases and it will make sense, but you can get away with 2x/week with your enanthate. Who wants to pin ED on their first cycle anyway.

One last thing to consider is the acquisition and use of HCG. It makes recovery far more smooth, and I will not run a cycle without it. Some may suggest using a high dose during pct, but it is a better approach to take 250-500iu 2-3x per week during cycle to maintain testicular health, rather than let em atrophy and then recover them. Its good stuff and not too expensive but not mandatory.

best of luck