T Nation

Natural Athlete on Letrozole


#1

Hello guys!

Thanks to you in this thread I got Letro, 30ml 2.5mg/ml for $55 (+$40 shipping) so $95 but that's much better than $240 for tablet form a source here in Bulgaria:

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/aromasin_for_natural_athlete_with_low_test_high_estrogens

I have few questions. I might start another thread next week - log. Monday I will do blood work testosterone + estrogen and I will start taking 1-2mg / week, split every day (I won't vary the dose - just will change it as I check blood work results). I will do blood work every 10 days until I get stable (not changing much in 2-3 consecutive tests) relative low (not very low - close to lower normal borderline for my age) and hopefully this will give me relatively high testosterone -> close to natural upper borderline for my age. This is all I hope for.

But now I also have some worries. If my natural testosterone is so low, if I get it higher using Letrozole, is it possible that I see natural testosterone production shutdown?

While I understand that my testosterone is low because I have lots of fat cells, fat helps high estrogens and suppress testosterone, also I understand that I'm not taking external source of testosterone, just stopping the conversion of my own test to estro. But also I don't know what mechanism the body uses to determine if hormones are at normal levels - will it compare it to previous levels or it will feel comfortable with the new levels which should be much healthier and "normal" than current levels.

Please advice.

Thank you.


#2

It's potent stuff and your body needs SOME estrogen. I would not use it when not on cycle. Try arimidex. And lose some fat.


#3

That stuff is probably bugus anyway if he got it from a research lab. Probably pepto bismal, or grape juice. Lift heavy, eat clean and sleep if you want to be a natural athlete. Also I thought a AI keeps almost any athlete from being a natty.


#4

Depends on your definition of natural, I guess.


#5

If some of you guys read my previous post, you would notice few things:

  • I have been 260lbs when I was 15 - 35-40% bf
  • I'm currently 20, around 190lbs, about 12% bf (top four abs visible but big legs and ass), first time hit 10% last year (7 months ago) after extreme dieting, I'm currently on Anabolic Diet and will start the Get Shredded Diet in week or so again - when I see how it goes with letro
  • I'm eating "CLEAN" (being strict diet, carbs cycling) year long, keeping food log
  • I have VERY low testosterone (7.78nmol/l last time checked, NORMAL being 8.4-28.7 for 20 yo)
  • I have VERY high estrogens (due to the fact I probably have lots of fat cells from the time I reached 260lbs and couldnt see my balls because of my belly)
  • I'm properly supplementing myself with minerals and vitamins, taking 7-8 hours of sleep most time.

And I am natural (still haven't used any steroids, any AIs, any body-enchanting drugs). I'm starting letrozole soon in very low doses, to help my test go up and my estrogens go down. I don't care if I'm "unnatural" if I have healthier hormone levels: less risk of gyno and better body composition

So don't bother replying if you havent even read my other post - better no answers then flaming when not having taken 10 minutes to read what I say...


#6

I sorry if it sounds like I am flaming. I get enough of that myself. I was taken to the cleaners from a research lab and hopefully you were not. I dont trust them! As far as your question for advice, I think you should see a Endo and get on TRT if your T numbers are low. It works incredibly well. This way you have a script and its legal. My and your numbers are the reason why there is TRT. Going the route you are going you may just be spinning your wheels if you get bunk letro. I give you my word if you do it the correct way you will be much happier.


#7

I'm in Bulgaria, TRT is not something popular. And I will have hard time getting TRT on 20. Steroids here are very easily accessible (I mean, I can get first class testosterone), possession of those is not illegal, only selling them. I have considered low doses of 100mg / week or so but currently I think will try the letro I already bought as I've been advised in the other thread.

I might have bought "grape juice" but I will do estrogens and testosterone blood work tomorrow and will start very low dose (0.25mg / day or 1.75mg a week) and I will do another blood work in 10 days, and it will show if I'm using something real. Then I will do another blood work in 20 days and they will show if my hormones are getting stable. I also expect to start seeing results on my self by then.

Right now I'm looking for an answer for the question from the first post.


#8

I would still go with arimidex over letro. Letro HAS been shown to substantially raise testosterone in obese men, but you're not obese anymore. I don't believe fat CELLS release aromatase. FAT releases aromatase. I don't think it should matter how many fat cells you have if you are, in fact, lean.

Arimidex is a lot easier on the body and still should reduce estrogen and raise testosterone. I don't think you want to stay on either indefiitely. The next step would be to look to natural compounds such as Aplha Male and Rez-V (once you have normalized a bit) and lost additional fat.


#9

jsbrook, thank you for your reply.

If its all about fat, not fat cells, then I don't have any explanation why my estradiol is so high and testosterone so low... All logic leads to that it SHOULD be aromatase.

I also plan to stay on this for few months at MOST. I will correct the dose if I get my estradiol too low. I want to lose the fat in my ass and legs, I've found that I can hit previous low body fat records substantially easier and I'm good at keeping my body fat close to last record (I carb cycle year long on the Anabolic Diet).


#10

Hello again!

10 days has passed since I've started taking letro (0.25mg / day), here are my hormone readings.

23th March

  • Testosterone 7.71nmol/l (normal between 8.6 and 27.8 nmol/l)
  • Estradiol 186.21 pmol/l (normal < 185 pmol/l)

17th May

Since mid-April I had been dieting, lost 2-3% bf, being around 11-13% bf on this test, one day before starting letro.

  • Testosterone 13.13 nmol/l (normal between 8.6 and 27.8 nmol/l)
  • Estradiol 165.1 pmol/l (normal < 185 pmol/l)

Today (28th May)

10 days 0.25mg / day letro

  • Testosterone 22.53 nmol/l (normal between 8.6 and 27.8 nmol/l)
  • Estradiol 126.63 pmol/l (normal < 185 pmol/l)

I can say for the last few days my libido is really high and I feel I'm losing fat in my lower side faster (I feel it by my pants, 3cm hips decreased for the last 10 days by measurements). I'm dieting on Anabolic Diet (carb cycling) and training as hard as ever. Also water retention is lower.

I will have another blood work in another 10 days and I will lower the dose if I get estradiol under 80-90 pmol/l. I can't find anywhere if there is critical low estradiol levels, decreasing it with over 50% than my previous levels seems way too much.

I will do this for 2-3 months, until I get really shredded 6-7% bf then I will stop.


#11

If your estrogen levels are abnormally high despite low testosterone, then aromatase inhibition -- providing dose is not so high as to drive estrogen abnormally low -- can only help you and will likely act to increase testosterone. I do not at all believe that it can act to lower testosterone.


#12

The results are obvious - it did increase my testosterone a LOT! Also, I don't understand how it couldn't -> in human males, estradiol is solely produced by aromatase, converting testosterone. So all logic is that less testosterone converted to estradiol will result in more testosterone and less estradiol - isn't this quite simple?


#13

If its working stick with it.


#14

dam brah! bloodwork is looking great. im thinking about trying either this or arimidex. i have had low test (still in "normal range" but on the low end for a 20-21 yr old male).


#15

any updates? I just started letro 3 days ago and id like to see how it is working out for you. your libido still high?


#16

My libido is greater than before. My testosterone is higher (not abnormally high) and estrogens are lower (not abnormally low), so why not? Anyway, I'll be doing another blood work next Friday (2nd July) and will update you.


#17

I've heard there are lots of bodybuilders in Bulgaria and it's more culturally acceptable. I think you should just try a light 4 week cycle is you want to use performance enhancing drugs, get some D-bol.