Hey guys I have had some serious back pain for over a year. The doctors seem to think that I have ankylosing spondylisis but the jury is still out. I certainly have the text book symptoms of AS but do not have HLA-B27 genotype. The x-rays show inflammation of sacroiliac joint, which is extremely painful but manageable with ibuprofen. The doctors want me to take 800mgs of ibuprofen 3x day, at that dosage the pain/inflammation is minimal, but I hate to think of the side effects.
This brings me to my question, has anyone had any success with natural anti-inflammatory supplements? I have tried BCQ (bromelain, curcuma longa rhizome extract, and quercetin dihydrate) and it works about half as good as ibuprofen. Currently I am trying Curcumin Phytosome (curcuma longa/phosphatidylcholine complex).
Flameout. Purchased here at T-Nation. Side effects include pain-free living, fat loss, improved blood lipids, and for some, an antipsychotic effect. Plus it’s a natural product, not a drug.
[quote]slimthugger wrote:
Prescription fish oils can help with inflammation. Ask your doctor to prescribe them for you.[/quote]
The funny thing is that the prescription fish oils that I’ve seen are less potent and far more expensive than Flameout, but then again what else would you expect when pharmaceutical companies begin selling supplements.
[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
There’s a definite possibility that you have a food allergy. But it can also be a injury that’s never healed. Are you currently lifting?
I have been on the anti-inflammation diet for about 2 months now, It has reduced the pain quite a bit, and I feel much healthier. I was tested for Klebsiella and the results came back negitive, so I have introduced some rice into my diet and have not noticed any change. All the change in diet and supplements make me think that it is an injury that has never healed.
I was in the Marine Corps for 4 years and I was a grunt so Im sure that all that heavy equipiment took its toll. This pain when it flares up is really bad, like I can not do anything, although with the change in diet and supp the flare ups are not as serve and happen much less. Does anyone have experiance with cortisone shots, Ive done a fair amount of research I just want some personal experiances?
My folks have had them. I think that they can become a lot like pain pills. Not that they are addictive (as far as I know) but a person can get too reliant on them and forget about that recovery from an injury requires a lot of hard work. I don’t mean to harp, because I’m not personally in the situation that I need a cortisone shot, but I’d only suggest taking the shot if you need it to perform physical therapy. Something put you in pain in the first place. You’d end right back up in that place once the shot wears off if you don’t do something to get out of the situation that put you there. PT hurts.
In regard to whether you condition is AS, without HLA B-27 found in your blood, do you have this SI inflammation on both joints (both SI joints) or just one. When is the last time you had films? Is the condition progressing up your lumbar spine or is it staying in the SI joints? I agree with CaliforniaLaw about the use of the Arnica Montana. I do not know how high the dose of curcumin is but an increase in the use of that herb will also dramatically decrease the amount of inflammation you are having. WE are talking in the range of 2000mg -4000mg a day divided into three or four doses. What is the high dose of fish oil you are taking and how much of that is EPA and DHA? How many doses of that are you taking a day?
My chiropractor recommended Devil’s Claw. Mauro DiPasquale also heralds white willow bark, the natural source of asprin. Regarding asprin, Dr Fred Hatfield states bodybuilders should supplement with it daily.
The SI joint inflammation is mostly on the left side, but when it flares up it is in both sides. I had my last xray in JAN and I have another appt. at the end of next month. I think the inflammation has moved up into the lumbar, I have really bad flexibility. The lack of flexibility is not from not stretching. Bending over at the waist is very painful. I have been taking the cucumin for about 3 days 4000mg broken up into 4 doses. I really am impressed with the results so far. What is the california law about Arnica Montana. Im taking about 10gs of fish oil.
You mentioned a doctor, but have you seen a chiropractor? Regular MDs don’t know squat about the mechanics of the back. It might be that some traction or manipulation might release any impingements that are causing the inflammation. Often an impinged nerve will force a muscle to contract continuously, and the muscle in turn pulls something out of alignment that causes the pain and inflammation.
I have had some serious back and hip injuries that most MDs have been unable to help, other than pain killers.
Over the years I have taken 12 fish oil a day. The Flameout from this site is top of the line. I also use from Lifeplus.com a 100mg Proanthanol Bio Complex and Liprenix. Lastly, walk a lot and loose weight!!!
I was working out with a man who was overweight and had back trouble. When he had two 25 lb dumbells in hand, I asked if he realized that is just how much he was overweight? You could see the light come on in his head. Now he understood a way to limit and ease his back pain. Just a hint…
And thank god for a couple of top of the line Chiropractors.
[quote]yorik wrote:
You mentioned a doctor, but have you seen a chiropractor? Regular MDs don’t know squat about the mechanics of the back. It might be that some traction or manipulation might release any impingements that are causing the inflammation. Often an impinged nerve will force a muscle to contract continuously, and the muscle in turn pulls something out of alignment that causes the pain and inflammation.[/quote]
Ankylosing spondylitis is a form of chronic arthritis. Any type of chiropractic adjustment or manipulation will only things worse.
[quote]yorik wrote:
You mentioned a doctor, but have you seen a chiropractor? Regular MDs don’t know squat about the mechanics of the back. It might be that some traction or manipulation might release any impingements that are causing the inflammation. Often an impinged nerve will force a muscle to contract continuously, and the muscle in turn pulls something out of alignment that causes the pain and inflammation.[/quote]
Ankylosing spondylitis is a form of chronic arthritis which pretty much leads to fusion of the spine. Chiropractic adjustments or any sort of spinal manipulation would not be the way to go…
Arnica Montana is used for its properties to heal tissues and to decrease inflammation. If it is AS you are on the right path and your job is now to preserve as much range of motion as possible in any areas, and if it is AS then it will eventually progress up the entire spine good news is the pain will disappear but so will all motion until you have breaks in segments.
Depending on your actually fish consumption I think you would benefit from an increase in fish oil consumption, make sure that those dosages are split throughout the day as well.
Chiropractic adjustments in the non affected segments will allow you to have better mobility in unaffected segments and that will have a better affect on your ADL’s. I agree with not adjusting the inflammed segments.
I disagree with the use of any nsaids if the natural ways are working for you until that is not working for you then look into some antinflammatory medications.
[quote]nsq64 wrote:
Im taking about 10gs of fish oil. [/quote]
You may need to triple or quadruple that amount of fish oil. Hear me out.
Fish oil is a blood thinner, but if you are not on medication, then strive for a balance between omega 6 and 3 in the diet, as several sources of information suggest that human beings evolved on a diet with a 1:1 ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 essential fatty acids, whereas in Western diets the ratio is 15/1 to 16.7/1
Due to the fact that we evolved on a diet with a ration of close to 1:1, it would be highly unlikely that this diet would pose harm as our bodies have “grown accustomed” to having this balance.
Further if taking Omega 3 for a particular health concern "A ratio of 2â??3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences.
These studies indicate that the optimal ratio may vary with the disease under consideration."
So perhaps 3 to 4 times this amount (30 to 40 grams per day of fish oil) would be a very reasonable recommendation. That would equate to only 360 cals from fat, with the majority from omega 3s.
If you’re taking in 3600 calories, and are balancing omega 3 and 6, then this amount of fish oil would constitute a fairly reasonable % of fat in the diet, from a macronutrient ratio perspective.