T Nation

Natty on Pennies


#1664

Cool, from you, and your talent, I really expected nothing else.

Looking forward to reading more about this! I remember back in the day you used to post a lot more about your clients. Like the guy who outgrew several jeans sizes. Loved that, and was always curious as to what you had them do in more detail as they progressed far quicker than I ever did! :slight_smile: My neurotyping understanding is mostly reverse engineered from published material, but I think that 2A is the most common type, no?

Not planned out in detail, no. I expect that most athletic days will either equal oly-lifting, or neural charge-oriented going mostly by feel. Some jumps, shuttle runs, tossing things. Maybe playing sports. But, >75% of the time it will be oly as that ties best in with my performance goals for 2019 the most which I’ll be posting soon. No real reason to wait until the new year, except I can then post my actual stats at the start of the new year.

Haha, fuck no. https://www.t-nation.com/training/smart-idea-terrible-results I use this instead,

image

and the tempo prescription is just a short-hand for expressing how the tempo between the exercises relate.

Just wanted something horizontal, and I haven’t done barbell rows in a while now so mostly keeping that movement in play. So,

nope. Just, indeed, a weird add-on that doesn’t really ruin anything.

Thanks, have to stay healthy so this is great!

I’ll usually be climbing on lower body days, and I don’t want to schedule things in that I might not recover from initially but rather add that in later on. I do need to develop my arms, they aren’t really in proportion. I have a super short torso, long legs, and long arms so looking at say Sandow’s proportions or Reeves proportions my arms are lagging behind. Also, I don’t have any experience with fasting from before so I expect that will be an added stressor so best start modestly. But I should do more for my triceps, my biceps are more developed than they are. I’ll have to think about it, but maybe a skull crusher, JM Press, close-grip DB mechanical drop-set.

The duration of this block will in truth primarily be dictated by boredom, I can follow a plan for 2 weeks easily, 3 weeks is a struggle and beyond that I’ll either switch things up or start cheating on the plan; changing things about, adding things in, use variations of the exercises. But, the plan on paper has been to do this block for as long as it takes for me to reverse my diet. So, I want there to have been a week where eating 15-17x my bodyweight pounds in calories does not result in any real weight gain over that week.

After that, I’m hoping into something that I’m really excited about, which is weight training 6-7 days a week again.

As you know, the key word that describes the 2A is variety. Well, for me, that’s not the most dominant expression of the neurotype but rather mine is the chameleon nature of the type. I like to train as a 1A/1B, intense, strength, and performance-oriented. I mean, I’m much more inspired by a push-pull-legs program than other variants. I also like shorter, but more frequent, workouts.

I like the rest intervals of a 2A (i.e. instead of doing A1, rest, A2, rest, … I’ll perform even better if I do A1, A2, rest, …) probably because of adrenaline then. And it keeps the workout shorter.

And, I find that variety in the sense of doing different things on a meta-level (i.e. having an “off-day” puts me out of my rhytm). Now, a type 3 doesn’t like change, and I don’t like that kind of change but then again a type 3 would burn out from weight-lifting every day. Meanwhile, for me it’s a stressor having different days, having to eat differently on different days (except for the weekends) and so forth.

But, yeah, the next block will be 6-7 days of weight training where I’ll be dieting 2 weeks, 1 week off, 2 weeks on, 1 week off, until the end of the T-ransformation probably. Again, 2A, so I can diet really hard but only if I don’t have to do it for too long as my mind starts to wander.

And then the block after that will be performance oriented, as we’ll be getting into late summer/autumn.

Edit: normal tempo for me is a pretty quick eccentric and using the bounce reflex.


#1665

So, just to summarize the bird’s eye view, I believe that I’m looking at something similar to

  • Boot camp ends on 22 December, might be 11-13% BF with some good fortune and grit
  • Having myself a week of having fun in the gym and eating some holiday food, but keeping a generally tight ship dietarily
  • The workouts that I just shared for 4-6 weeks as I reverse my diet, I want to employ that dietary schema to 1. desensationalize being hungry and desensationalize carbs (a bit carb-phobic at the moment), 2. give my thyroid a break from the diet that I just did, 3. trigger some autophagy to get rid of some excess skin proteins
  • 12-16 weeks of either 2 weeks on diet, 1 week off, or 3 weeks on, 1 week off. I’ll play this by feel. The workouts are 6-7 days a week, already have designed the basic outline, just have to add some spice to it. Goal, 7-9% BF.
  • Depending on whether it’s summer season at the gym I’ll run Built for Battle or The Complete Power Look, this will probably be around when T-ransformation 2019 ends so I won’t be peaking for that. I’m joining in just to stay accountable and have another item in the bank that keeps me making good choices.
  • Autumn, performance/strength
  • Winter, hypertrophy/performance

Have some die-trying goals, like adding 20kg to the deadlift and squat, and some “want to achieve goals” like adding 40kg to the deadlift and squat. But, most important thing is to stay healthy and stay lean.


#1666

It at least seems that type 2s are most common. The only statistic I’ve heard in terms of this is that 17% of people are dopamine dominant (type 1s)

As long as you have some guidelines and/or principles for it you’ll be all good.

I remember one of my very early programs where I purposefully put an “athletic day” (didn’t call it that, the objective was just to get some sweat flowing with compound movements that I don’t usually do). It took me like three weeks before that had morphed into a max deadlift day. That’s why my personal opinion is that there should always be some outline.

That’s a good way of doing it. I’ve seen coaches that are obsessed with the tempo of their clients movements, (sometimes the tempo is even more important for them than the technique) interestingly they are never really getting results.

Oh, alright. My Zen was just disrupted by the way that movement looked like in writing. I’m a sucker for symmetry.

You’re welcome

Completely forgot that you do that stuff, I get it now.

Welcome to the club.

You could try Westside’s “dirty 30s”, which is a mechanical drop set of:
10 Skullcrushers
10 Bent arm pullover
10 CG bench reps

I’ve always found the CG bench to be too light, switching it to JM press could probably work.

Ladies and gentlemen, a type 2A. I wouldn’t force you to use the same program for the whole reverse, because if you don’t like what you’re doing the gym itself may become a stressor (in addition to the stress response you get from training). The main thing here us that what you do after this block has to be justified: it should be a logical continuum to your training.

I do have a bittersweet memory of this

I’ve noticed that your sessions are pretty compact and compound -oriented most of the time. You’d probably enjoy my current program; 6 days a week with average training time of 30 or so minutes. Although I only do one movement at a time and rest a bit longer.

2As thrive on adrenaline, so that is a very good guess.

That sounds like a pretty good plan. If you find that you’re bored from doing the same 2 weeks on/ 1 week off cycle you could switch the way you’re dieting during those 2 weeks on, say, halfway through the challenge. I’m just throwing thoughts out here, it’s not gospel

Okay, I can see how that pans out.

For me it’s a damn slow eccentric and no bounce. My paused strength is really close to what I do without a pause. Funny how that works. Can you multitask? How good would you rate your short term memory?

You have a very good plan there, indeed. Of course some things may change as time goes on but that’s a good place to start from.

What are you roughly squatting and deadlifting now?

Somehow I completely jumped over this. You know, as a coach I’m very intense. I’m there with you on every rep. I’m also that guy who makes a lot more noise when he’s coaching than he does when he’s training himself. Not with everyone though, I do realize that a lot of people would probably either be crushed by the attention that brings to you from other people or just be scared to death. So one part of the equation is, of course the fact that everything is done with intensity and intention.

The squat dude was a monster. He had a tremendous amount of strength potential and work ethic. Hopefully our paths cross someday and we can train together again.

Getting the client to believe in themselves is key. If they are not hard workers by nature they must be made into one. No matter who the coach is, it’s always the client that’s doing the heavy work. So really it’s a combination of the client’s work ethic and genetic makeup and coaching.

I did do that one but where I wrote monthly updates of my mother’s training, but as you see, I haven’t done them in a while. I’m pulling the excuse card on this one and telling you that getting out schedules to fit together is a pain in the ass and she rarely goes to the gym by herself. I get it, she works and travels a lot so there’s a whole lot of stress and fatigue going on.


#1667

Obviously, I only care about such stats because I’m such an utter nerd and love getting into the nitty gritty details of any system trying to find where it breaks and where it behaves in curious ways. For instance, I’d love to overlay neurotyping to different professional sectors and roles. I find that the CEO-types I interact with are either Type 1s and are horrible psychopaths, or they are super-social 2As. Most regular software engineers are Type 3s, definitely. And, designers and the like are all type 2s.

Haha, I could easily make this mistake myself. Or run a really heavy strength circuit and be like “Hey, it’s athletic because I’m drenched in sweat!”.

Yeah, I’m not too keen on using it for exact second counts, it more just sets the general tone. A 3s eccentric for me still ends up being like a controlled descent except for the final quarter of the movement where I’ll intuitively bounce (like a type 1B…)

Haha, I feel you. It’s definitely tacked on there.

Love it, doing it!

This is exactly why I’ve started formulating myself in looser terms, because now I don’t have to fight my nature. It’s also why I want to start writing my own programming, that and because of the creative aspect of it. It scratches a different kind of itch. My programs will take a while to develop until they are good, but I’ll bring enough intensity and dedication into them that it won’t matter.

Yup, that’s the idea. I mean, there are so many ways I could go. One would be to do some strength work instead to potentiate hypertrophy work later on but, meh. I’m pretty happy with what I have lined up.

You and me both brother.

30-45 minutes are ideal for me. 45 is better than 30, because that justifies the overhead of getting to the gym for me which takes time and effort.

No definitely, you are quite right. That’s been the most valuable thing about neurotyping for me, it’s not “oh, workout this way”, “program your exercises this way”, “diet this way”. No, it’s that my particular neurotype explains my particular idiosyncrasies and has made them not be a stressor but something that I accept as part of my personality. For instance, I did The Best Damn… way back when, after a few weeks I started adding in extra ab work between sets, started adding metcon at the end, etcetera. Why? Boredom! Now, I can accept that and leverage that in a different way.

I don’t believe that anyone can multi-task, not truly. Depends on how qualitatively you need to do things I suppose.

Above average. Long-term memory is subpar. But, I think this is more nurture than nature. I’m a digital native, I don’t need to recall things: I have computers do that for me. I’ve studied with some medical students, they have amazing recall. They can remember “Oh, this question came up on an exam three years ago”.

Nice, always glad to have some reassurance.

I’ll do 2 reps at 120kg beltless back squat, and 4 reps at 140kg belted deadlift.

I think that matters a ton. I was always stronger when I exercised with the CrossFit guys.

This is huge! I un-demonized missing a rep and can push myself so much further nowadays. As long as I don’t break form, dropping the bar back onto the pins is fine. With that said though, I try to adhere to the following (to not practice failure on the main lifts):

  • Free-weights compound, I’ll leave 1-2 reps in the tank. Kind of. I won’t sacrifice form to get reps at least
  • Machine/pulley compound 1 rep short or max good reps without hitting failure.
  • Isolation: to absolute failure and sometimes beyond

#1668

That would definitely be interesting to see. When I was doing my military service it was really interesting to see how different trainers with different neurotypes taught us. (We could go about the same exact thing I’m two very different ways as one of our trainers was a 1B and the other was a 3)

Exactly what I meant

Or a 2A with high acetylene choline, as people with higher levels of ACL are more proficient with utilizing the stretch reflex. That’s also the reason I asked about your multitasking ability and short term memory, high ACL improves both of those. Let’s actually jump there for a bit;

By multitasking I mean just doing any two things at the same time. Personally I suck at multitasking, I can barely drink and listen to someone at the same time, let alone write and talk.

Yeah, you probably have higher ACL levels than most people. Another example of my own: if I see somebody for the first time, say, when I’m on a bouncing gig, I will not remember them if they come back merely minutes later to ask or tell something.

People like that are truly puzzling sometimes.

Really, programming training is almost a form of art. At least if we define art as a way of expressing yourself.

That’s the spirit!

I practically live next door to the gym I go to, it’s awesome.

Definitely. I tried to fit myself into the bodybuilding-oriented style of training for rather long but I’d always slip more into the strength training side of things. Now that I embrace it I’m making really good progress in both muscle mass and strength levels.

Really neurotyping seems to be the tutorial to playing the lifting game with the hand you were given.

Just put in some good, hard work and you’ll get to your goals in no time

Seems like a sensible approach. What some people (namely the guys that lift in a black and white cellar while listening to death metal) don’t understand that having your form break down every time you lift isn’t making you stronger. Just because you’re lifting more every time you go to the gym doesn’t mean jack shit if you’re also cheating more every time. You know that “intensity with intention” is pretty much my mantra, and there’s a good reason for that; both are important, and with one missing you won’t achieve what you could.


#1669

Training log;
Mini cut;

Upper body pull:

  1. Pendlay row
    3x4x120kgs

  2. Lat pulldown (slight pause at bottom, slow negatives)
    3x6x110kgs

  3. Face pull
    2x10x60kgs

  4. Incline DB curl
    2x8x20kgs

stretches

Notes:

Straight from bed once again. My hips and hamstrings have been aching pretty bad for a couple of days now so pendlay rows were pretty painful.

I wanted to try lat pulldowns for a bit as I haven’t done them in a long time, they felt good but really, nothing compares to pull ups.

Did two sets of face pull as preparatory work for the next block and some biceps after that.

Done in 26 minutes.


#1670

Yeah, well. Type 1B has high ACL, right? Curiously, CT can almost spot if someone is a Type 1B just by watching someone perform reps. Super cool.

Oh yeah, I even listen to audiobooks when I lift. Works as well as music, and I get more done in a day.

With people, I’ll remember them forever. With… stuff, like bits of info, not so much.

Indeed, and it’s something I really want to practice. Will try to get my fat loss program down from my brain and into a legible form sometime soon. I think you’d really like it. It’s just, very nuanced at the moment as it takes into account a lot of variability in my schedule.

I.e., my Monday workout for the first phase (it will have phases) have allowances for if I can do it during my lunch break, or if I have to do it in the AM, and even depending on which gym I’ll be able to get to. Some corporate restructuring going on, and I’m hoping to move apartment soon, so my planning really takes it all into account. On the upside, I can just take the workouts that I rarely did and slot them into subsequent phases.

I have two gym memberships, one is paid for by my employer and is in the same building as the office but it isn’t as well equipped, nor can I climb there (hence the multiple memberships). It’s a great fallback for when I need to sleep-in though.

You’re a 1A right?

I don’t remember who said it, but it was here on the forums:

Any hard training is going to “work” so don’t worry so much if it 100% optimal and just do what you want and switch it up as you see fit.

and I think it was CT himself who wrote,

There are many ways to train to get results. I believe that the training approach that works best is the one that better fits your psychological profile. I personally find traditional bodybuilding training boring and it kills my motivation to train this way. Ultimately the training approach that gets you the most motivated will bring out the best results

Yeah, I swear there is a girl at my gym that has put 20kg on her squat but decreased her ROM by 50% over the last couple of weeks…


#1671

Yeah, 1B has high ACL as well.

CT actually described the way 1Bs do their reps in quite a few instances, he is really proficient with this stuff. (No wonder)

Yeah, no chance of me ever doing that, I can’t even cook and listen to books at the same time.

I’m really bad with remembering people unless I become friends with them or see them really much otherwise. With other stuff I’m decent, but not great by any stretch of imagination

Tag me when you do get it on paper, it’s always interesting to see what people come up with

Yeah

All of the seasoned guys will tell you the same thing, just if people understood that.

Yeah, that’s pretty much the same thing

Wonderful progress indeed. Some coaches purposefully make their clients lift with shortened ROM/cheat otherwise just so they seem to be getting more results. Nonsense.


#1672

Training log;
Mini cut;

Lower body:

  1. Snatch grip stiff leg deficit deads
    3x4x170kgs

  2. Good morning from pins
    3x6x160kgs

  3. Leg extension
    2x8x80kgs

  4. Smith machine calf raise
    2x10x110kgs

Stretches

Notes:

The SGSLDL from deficit (whew, what a name) was supposed to be just a snatch grip deficit dead, but my hips said no. Now, after training, they are feeling better though.

Really there’s not much else to explain, this took 35 minutes and it was the last session of the week. Next week I’ll do the same thing again but I’ll be adding 2.5-5kgs to each movement.


#1673

Pretty nicely actually.When I left the forum I barely had anything going in my life.To be honest, the only thing I did was lift

Now I have a job, university’s going great, I’ve lost a ton of weight and have a bigger social cycle than I can handle

What about you?If I remember correctly you were about to join the military, right?


#1674

Nice, seems like you’ve made some serious strides in life, man

I was going to do my mandatory military duty, I got out in March of this year. After that I’ve been working a lot, got into a school (physical therapy) which starts in about a month and I did a Neurotyping certification. So it’s been pretty good.


#1675

Great to hear you’re also doing well

Also,

Those are some strong numbers dude,What’s your bw at the moment


#1676

Thanks man! I’m about 93kgs atm, I’ve been on a mini-cut for a week now so I’m a down a bit from where usually am


#1677

Mini-cut update:

So, I’be been on a diet for eight days now (as I started on last week’s Sunday). I begun at 97.2kgs and today I weighted in at 91.9kgs. That’s 5.2kgs down in a bit over a week, neat. Sure a whole lot of that is water weight but it tells me I’m going in the right direction.

There were a whole lot of opportunities to cheat this week; home-made pizza, a restaurant trip that someone else paid for and an early Christmas party but I stayed in my lane. Two more weeks of this and then I’ll get back on the gaining train.


#1678

It took you eight days to lose what I lost in 4 weeks. I’m jealous lol


#1679

@danteism What’s up my fellow northern brother? Just a quick question, I’ve been reading your log since way back when but I don’t believe I’ve seen you do any isometric work. Have I missed it, and if so, how do you like 'em?


#1680

I’m doing great, although it seems like next couple of months are going to be pretty busy - I have two free days during Christmas but apart from that I’ll be working every day until halfway through January or so

I’ve done functional isometrics for pressing movements recently (I list them as overload, which is easier to understand - I just lift for 1-2 inches off of pins with maximal weight)

I did do regular isometrics on my neural charge days, (and some sessions here and there, just forgot to log them I guess) but the problem with them is that the powerrack at our gym is not bolted to the floor so I end up lifting it, which really serves no purpose. (And getting a loaded barbell into a position to do isometrics from would be a pain in the ass.

But all in all I like them for activation but at the moment they aren’t really practical for me


#1681

I’m quite sure that by now it’s obvious that I have zero trouble gaining or losing weight.

This diet is not something I’d do for longer durations by any means, the deficit is pretty intense