Nationalism

Do you think there’s a difference between the love you have for your country [ideology/religion] and the love those you believe to be a threat have for their’s?

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Do you think there’s a difference between the love you have for your country [ideology/religion] and the love those you believe to be a threat have for their’s?[/quote]

Yes, there is a difference between saying I am proud to be an American/Brit/South African or whatever and saying I wanna blow myself up in the name of Allah. Next question?

What is the difference?

[quote]ephrem wrote:
What is the difference?[/quote]

I think the blowing one’s self up is a pretty big difference.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
ephrem wrote:
What is the difference?

I think the blowing one’s self up is a pretty big difference. [/quote]

Hey RJ what’s up with some of the nut jobs on this site lately?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
rainjack wrote:
ephrem wrote:
What is the difference?

I think the blowing one’s self up is a pretty big difference.

Hey RJ what’s up with some of the nut jobs on this site lately?[/quote]

And yeah, what`s up with your side having nothing but emotions and intellectual platitudes to support your position?

What if you had to rely on reason and not on an invincible army.

Thatbe allmost like, I dont know, I allmost think fair and equal describes it…

[quote]orion wrote:
ZEB wrote:
rainjack wrote:
ephrem wrote:
What is the difference?

I think the blowing one’s self up is a pretty big difference.

Hey RJ what’s up with some of the nut jobs on this site lately?

And yeah, what`s up with your side having nothing but emotions and intellectual platitudes to support your position?

What if you had to rely on reason and not on an invincible army.

Thatbe allmost like, I dont know, I allmost think fair and equal describes it… [/quote]

Don’t want to interupt what promises to be a good thread but, what’s with the purse?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
ephrem wrote:
What is the difference?

I think the blowing one’s self up is a pretty big difference. [/quote]

Is it not identical to the concept of “giving your life for your country?”

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Is it not identical to the concept of “giving your life for your country?”[/quote]

I was trying to recall the last time that an American soldier was told to drive a humvee filled with C4 into a school building during a school day and purposefully kill all the children there so that he would be promised a burial with all the fanfare at Arlington National Cemetary afterwords… Or that a pilot was told to fly his F-16 into a marketplace filled with civilians with no ties to terrorism to get back at the terrorists…

I don’t really recall this happening. Maybe I missed it?

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Do you think there’s a difference between the love you have for your country [ideology/religion] and the love those you believe to be a threat have for their’s?[/quote]

There is a large difference between patriotism and nationalism. And a large difference between loving your religion and being a religious fanatic. And between trying to fight a war and minimize civilian casualties, and fighting a war to maximize innocent casualties.

These not-so-fine ethical points seem lost on a lot of Europeans and fruitloop Americans lately though. The “all morals are subjective” crowd is great for philosophical debates, but totally worthless when trying to decide on practical steps to take in reality.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
rainjack wrote:
ephrem wrote:
What is the difference?

I think the blowing one’s self up is a pretty big difference.

Is it not identical to the concept of “giving your life for your country?”[/quote]

I do not recall any Americans strapping a bomb to themselves and boarding a bus full of women and children or running into a crowded cafe.

To try to draw a parallel between terrorist actions and the actions of our soldiers is both ignorant and despicable.

I have lost all patience for you low life terrorist sympathizers.

Scum like you enable terrorism with your false moral equivalency.

I am just amazed how vocal you douchebags really are online.

I wonder if you discuss your twisted opinions with people face to face.

[quote]ChuckyT wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Is it not identical to the concept of “giving your life for your country?”

I was trying to recall the last time that an American soldier was told to drive a humvee filled with C4 into a school building during a school day and purposefully kill all the children there so that he would be promised a burial with all the fanfare at Arlington National Cemetary afterwords… Or that a pilot was told to fly his F-16 into a marketplace filled with civilians with no ties to terrorism to get back at the terrorists…

I don’t really recall this happening. Maybe I missed it?[/quote]

I’ll try to be the advocatus diaboli;

You cannot afford to tell a F16 pilot to blow himself up.
The damn jet, the pilot’s training, it all costs millions upon millions.
On the other hand,
some TNT, some rusty nails, a steel pipe and an unshaved guy who’s military training consisted of firing a AK47 into the sky.
The cost value ratio is a lot better, as you can see- Life can be cheap sometimes.

[quote]orion wrote:
And yeah, what`s up with your side having nothing but emotions and intellectual platitudes to support your position? [/quote]

We do. There are lots of reasonable people that support us and agree with us. Hundreds of millions of them.

(And you have to be kidding with the “invincible army” nonsense. You are mistaking us for Nazi Austria, which tried to impose its will on THE ENTIRE PLANET through force. We’re not nearly as morally bankrupt as you.)

An Austrian lecturing Americans on fairness in foreign policy… Awesome! Remind me about when Austria has ever been worried about fairness and equality? Did you ask the Jews about that before you put them in the oven?

I found out a few weeks ago that my neighbor was in the US 3rd army in your country at the end of WWII. He said when they liberated Mauthausen, one of the cruellest, most foul dens of evil in the history of the world, the Austrians in Linz said that it wasn’t them, it was the German Nazis that had “conquered” Austria. When the troops pointed out that they had found Austrian guards at some of the subcamps, the Austrians then claimed that they didn’t know what was happening. This obvious lie so incensed the 3rd army brass that they ordered the inhabitants of all the local towns, including a great many from Linz, to show up in their best clothes to help bury the bodies that were stacked up outside the crematoria by the tens of thousands. As thousands of the camp’s inhabitants were dying still from various diseases (most caused by physical abuse and malnutrition), the Austrians were ordered to not wear gloves while they unstacked the bodies and buried them in mass graves as a form of punishment.

I asked him what the camp conditions were like. He said there were a bunch of camps centered around the area. He got to see one where the Nazis were using the slave labor to quarry stones WITH THEIR BARE HANDS. The bodies were cleaned up by the time he got to see it but there was still blood on the rocks where the innocents had been trying to scrape with their fingernails, and reportedly where they had been executed on the spot for not working hard enough, and oftentimes just for fun.

He said that he and many of his buddies HATED their time with the Austrians, because the Austrians still tried to cling to the lie that it was German Nazis who committed all the crimes, and that the Austrians were poor victims, even though they had all seen the newsreels of the cheering Austrians when the Germans invaded, and the SS Austrian camp guards. I pointed out to him that the Austrians did arrest the historian a few years back for denying the Holocaust, and his response was telling: “Jorg Heider and Kurt Waldheim”.

A very moving conversation with an interesting man that I love to talk to. He still choked up when he talked about the camps and I did too even though it was long before my time. Thank God for men like him who ENDED the horror your people were perpetrating.

My own grandfather never hated the Japanese like this man loathed the Austrians. I think I’ll take his lead and say that your country of “pigfuckers”, as he put it, ought to just keep a low profile until all the old men who remember cleaning up the crimes that you denied are passed away.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I’ll try to be the advocatus diaboli;

You cannot afford to tell a F16 pilot to blow himself up.
The damn jet, the pilot’s training, it all costs millions upon millions.
On the other hand,
some TNT, some rusty nails, a steel pipe and an unshaved guy who’s military training consisted of firing a AK47 into the sky.
The cost value ratio is a lot better, as you can see- Life can be cheap sometimes.[/quote]

Well, one of the differences between our country and yours, is that we are not robots, so that if a superior officer ordered a man to kamikaze into a crowd of innocents, the man would refuse the order and be exonerated. Of course, the American officer wouldn’t give the order in the first place, and would end up locked up if he did…

Recent history tells us that Germans wouldn’t balk at murdering tens of millions of innocents and then try to say “I was just following orders” during their trials (not imposed by Germans I might add).

This is a big part of the reason that “diaboli” and “Germany” go so well together. And why we don’t like being lectured to by Germans and Austrians about the “morality” of our foreign policy, given some VERY recent events.

[quote]orion wrote:
And yeah, what`s up with your side having nothing but emotions and intellectual platitudes to support your position?

What if you had to rely on reason and not on an invincible army.

Thatbe allmost like, I dont know, I allmost think fair and equal describes it… [/quote]

I can pretty much sum it up from a quote by Carlos Mencia: “Because - That’s America, bitch”

Fair? What in the hell does “fair” have to do with anything? Especially on the world stage?

We are the best. I am not about to cut my legs off at the knees so Austrians can feel taller, or more equal.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
rainjack wrote:
ephrem wrote:
What is the difference?

I think the blowing one’s self up is a pretty big difference.

Is it not identical to the concept of “giving your life for your country?”[/quote]

Your level of retardation is mind blowing.

Go troll some other forum.

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Do you think there’s a difference between the love you have for your country [ideology/religion] and the love those you believe to be a threat have for their’s?[/quote]

If I were born in America, I’d probably have ended up a flag-waving American. If I were born a Palestinian, I’d probably have ended up an anti-zionist, rock-throwing Palestinian.

Beef

…i don’t think there are good guys left in this world, but obviously alot of other people think otherwise. It continues to amaze me how people take criticism on their country so personal…

…nationalism doesn’t allow for criticism, does it? It requires blind following and the silencing of dissenting voices. Nationalism also perpetuates the myth that there is indeed a good side and a bad side, when there’s only points of view…

…it doesn’t matter whether you’re part of the US armed forces, or a suicide bomber, both run the risk of being killed because of a point of view. Is that worth it?

…since WW2 nothing has been as clear cut as the nazi’s against the rest of the world, but today we have a completely different situation. Where do you want this to end?

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…nationalism doesn’t allow for criticism, does it? It requires blind following and the silencing of dissenting voices. Nationalism also perpetuates the myth that there is indeed a good side and a bad side, when there’s only points of view…[/quote]

Who has been silenced? I don’t think what you are seeing here is nationalism. Just a deep pride in the United States. There is a difference, you just don’t want to see it.

Myth? 3000 innocent people are killed by the hands of murderous cowards, and you consider that a myth?

If you can’t see the inherent evil in that, then you are in need of some help.

Now you are equating the US military with terrorists? The U.S. Military must take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. Islamo-nazis want the total destruction of Israel and the Great Satan.

If you can’t see the difference - you aren’t looking very closely. And why should you? That would only interfere with your opinion.

With the destruction and complete elimination of the terrorist threat. We are at war. War has never been decided at the bargaining table - it is decided on the battlefield.

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
ephrem wrote:
Do you think there’s a difference between the love you have for your country [ideology/religion] and the love those you believe to be a threat have for their’s?

If I were born in America, I’d probably have ended up a flag-waving American. If I were born a Palestinian, I’d probably have ended up an anti-zionist, rock-throwing Palestinian.

Beef[/quote]

If you were born in AMerica, you would have had your ass kicked everyday of your life because a fucking moron is a fucking moron - Canadian, or otherwise.