T Nation

National Debt Clock



We're almost up to 9 trillion! C'mon baby, almost there!!

Nothing like destroying a country so we can have Social Security, corporate welfare, medicare, aid to education, and so on.

I can understand having a large military, a judiciary, and a police force. But to bankrupt a country, all for some sort of drooling altruism...pathetic...


The U.S. GDP has not caught on(still going strong). It's going to take 2-3 years to reap all the "benefits" of Bush's economy policies, then the shit might hit the fan.

They are pouring more and more money into Iraq, but I wonder if they've forgotten about Afghanistan. This doesn't get much media coverage, but the situation in Afghanistan is worse than ever.


Eventually, HH will end up voting for Paul.


Sorry, but this is not accurate. Maybe by using congress math, but the reality is much worse.

USA Today recently used real accounting practices and the average for each person is over half a million. That is about 20 times what this shows.

And believe it or not, Iraq is only a small part of this. Social Security is the big problem. It is off the books for liability, but on the books for assets.

What was really funny, (by funny I mean sad,) is how the politicians used the fuzzy math to fight against reforming social security. They pointed out that by privatizing it, the debt would jump dramatically. They forgot to mention that the only reason the debt would jump was because they could no longer lie about it.

Sorry, 6.5 times worse.


Do you know if they just added the numbers or is it in todays money?

Good news is, they are allready are inflating their way out of it.


It was accurate as of May of this year, when they finished their accounting.

Now while the US is intentionally weakening the dollar, it is done very carefully. The last thing the government wants is an plunging dollar. The benefits of holding debt instruments will then go away, and no more new government debt, so inflation will not solve the problem.

Right now Social Security is headed into negativeland, and will not be able to hide the debt as it starts pumping out more money then it takes in. Similar to how China turned from a net exporter of oil to a net importer changed the oil markets.


...I'm sure defense has nothing to do with these expenses...


I will never understand people who bitch and moan about our gov't spending a shit-ton on the military, yet don't bat an eyelash about our gov't spending several shit-tons on Welfare and Social Security.


The ratio is much more shifted towards the military than you'd expect.

And, for most people, helping the American poor pay for medication is more worthy a cause than freeing a people on the other side of the Earth.


I believe Social Security is the biggest expense.


Social Security alone is the largest single expenditure by our Federal gov't.

Welfare and Social Security together cost far more than all military spending by our Federal gov't.

This isn't about the Iraq War, or even U.S. foreign policy.

The gov't's maintaining an army is a specific function of the federal gov't explicitly listed in the Constitution. It's what the gov't is supposed to do.

The other two items are socialist items that the fed gov't has no business doing, and are programs threatening to bankrupt our fed gov't a few measly decades after they were chartered.

I am not morally opposed to ensuring that old people won't starve and that someone between jobs should be able to buy groceries.

I am strongly opposed to our federal government doing so (as opposed to state government), and I am strongly opposed to our federal gov't holding a gun to our heads and forcing tax-payers to pay for these items. I hate that these items are mandatory, and that refusal to pay results in jail time.

I hate that our federal gov't has decided that my tax dollars are going to make sure that every man, woman, and child in the U.S. -- citizen or not-- shall have a car, a PC, cable TV access, nice clothes, air conditioning, internet access, a dvd player, two color TV's, and a cell phone. That's poor?

My ass it's "poor", and it chaps my hide that I am forced to buy these luxury items for other people or face jail time.

It chaps my hide when people complain about the bloated fed gov't, and the first thing they point at is the military, which is explicitly included in the Constitution as a responsibility of our federal gov't, and ignore the elephant in the room that is an anchor around our fed gov't debts.

Rather than cutting back on these two programs, they instead issue more debt, shake the magic money tree, and/or raise taxes. No, instead of reducing SS and Welfare, we should cut back on an already underfunded military.

I mean hell, who needs a military? Instead, we could spend all that money ensuring that every American has free HBO!


Let me explain this to you. Without Social Security on the books, it is close to 9 trillion, and with Social Security accurately figured in it is 58 trillion. That is 84.5% of the debt.

Social Security was 21% of the 2007 Budget. Another 14% is Medicare, and another 13% is income security, plus 10% under health. That is 58% of the budget for social programs. National Defense is 19%.

Big Brother is here.



Excellent post, except for the simple conclusion I must reach that since you propose the possibility of federalist solutions, you must therefore hate black people. :>


My grandpa tells me to save, save, save because when I am old enough to collect it, social security won't be there.

Thanks old people for mortgaging my future.


The best idea to save would probably be to invest in a house and to mortgage it with a fixed interest rate.

If history is any judge the US will try to inflate their way out of their problems which would wipe out any savings you have.

If you pay a 5% interest rate though, and nothing but the interest rate, you will be the only one smiling on your street when inflation hits 20% a year.