T Nation

Nate Green's Peri-Workout Nutrition Experience


#1

So I was on the phone with Thibs and Tim Patterson earlier today and after hearing about this protocol I couldn't wait to get into the gym.

I'm waiting on my box of FINiBARs, so I did a slightly different version.

50 minutes before - 2 caps Alpha-GPC
30 minutes before - 3 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
10 minutes before - 2 scoops Surge Recovery
20 minutes into the workout - 1 scoop Anaconda
45 minutes into the workout - 1 scoop Anaconda

All I have to say is I will never go back to my old routine. Not a chance.

I just had this rush, this...this get-the-hell-out-of-my-way, hardcore attitude. I looked fuller and more muscular at the beginning of my workout. I mean, my veins were popping out so much I could almost pinch them between my fingers. The muscle pump was ridiculous. Besides the insane muscle pump, the best thing was that the weight felt easy. I mean they were light as hell. Tinker toys.

And I had so much energy it was crazy. I actually added two sets to every exercise and even added a hellish "beach muscle" circuit at the end where I did Jettison curls, dips, machine flyes, reverse flyes, and dragonflags. I didn't even have any stimulants!

I told my friends about the protocol and it instantly clicked. They couldn't believe they've never tried to boost insulin so high and so quick at the beginning of the workout. One of them even quipped that "Surge Recovery" should be called "Surge Pre-Workout".

Anyway, I'll be experimenting with this a lot more. I just can't wait to get my FINiBARs...

-Nate


#2

Thanks for rubbing it in that non of us mere mortals can get our hands on Anaconda yet:) But seriously though, did you do the same workout as you would normally do or did you switch it up as well as the Peri-workout nutrition?


#3

Is it safe to say that instead of looking at the POST-workout picture, what we really need to be focusing on is the PRE-workout?


#4

Is there bloating due to large influx of fluid and carbs?


#5

I think that post, or pre or anything like that would be a misnomer. Let's just call it 'workout nutrition'. The timing is the key element here, and the goal is to maximize workout performance as well as reponse to training,


#6

So, they finally managed to come up with a way to plug the Finibars into a protocol :).


#7

When I was following the Scrawny to Brawny diet the plan was to have 3 servings of Surge (one pre, one during, and one post) and I agree that the 1st serving of Surge really helped with energy levels. . etc.

My question is concerning the use of SWF. If the product was designed to increase work capacity, would taking it 30 minutes or so pre-workout take away from the products benefits? Or is that being covered by your during workout Anaconda? I wish you guys would just release it, or come up with a plan for us that don't have it (I'm hoping for the 1st please!)

-Matt


#8

This looks like a protocal I can actually try. The Finibars are out for me unfortunately due to food allergies. This looks good, minus the Anaconda of course. Any recommendations for the masses who don't have access to Anaconda yet? Maybe one scoop of SR, or a different CH product.
Thanks


#9

While there is no real substitute for ANACONDA 1 scoop of SURGE RECOVERY would indeed be a good option since whey hydrolysate is almost as fast as CH.


#10

Don't worry about it, WORKOUT FUEL is actually designed to be taken before a workout. The goal is to load the muscles with phosphates, electrolytes, beta-alanine, etc. Plus, the carbs it contains (rice oligodextrin and palatinose) are absorbed slowly while pulling water into the muscle cell. So the product actually needs those 30 minutes or so to work its magic.

Endurance athletes continue to drink it during their workout because it's so long, but for strength work it is not necessary.


#11

Well, actually the cycling team had been using them for a long time.

Tim and I were talking to Dr. Lowery regarding 'mega' carb loading right before a workout to get a huge anabolic response. Dr. L even recommended going up as high s 500g!

Tim and I then tried to come up with the best mix of carbs, taken at the right time to avoid overloading the body or causing reactive hypoglycemia. The FINiBARS are great for that purpose because rice oligodextrin and palatinose are:

  • slowly absorbed yet do not cause stomach distress or bloating
  • when used in the proper ratio they act as an osmotic element, pulling water into the muscles

So the bars are used to initiate the carb loading protocol gradually without causing discomfort, then we switch to WORKOUT FUEL which also contains the same two carbs, but also some D-glucose which will create more of an insulin release.

Finally we switch to SURGE RECOVERY which is fast-absorbed and lead to an immense insulin spike.

It's a gradual process where each step builds up to the next.


#12

Thanks for the reply! I'm think I'm gonna start up something similar to what you and Nate have got going on here. I have a decent stash of Workout Fuel, and Recovery on hand. . . so why not. I'm assuming my preworkout solid P+C meal isn't needed now?

-Matt


#13

It would actually be detrimental if consumed less than 2 hours before your workout.


#14

Ouch, so for those of us who pay for the supplements that's going to be a hefty bill per month!

I mean let's just assume 4 workouts per week and 4 weeks in a month.

You would need:
2 bottles of SURGE Workout Fuel
2 bottles of SURGE Recovery (Assuming you are also using 2 scoops post-workout)
1 bottle of Alpha-GPC
X bottles of Anaconda at X price

So not including the Anaconda you are looking at ~$200 a month just for peri-workout nutrition. If the Anaconda is priced like the SURGE Workout Fuel you are looking at ~$300 a month.

For those of us with a budget do you have any recommendations for peri-workout nutrition?

I don't mean to be rude with my post at all! Rather just looking for some advice as most people, even the serious athletes, will not be able to afford the plan laid out above.


#15

I understand your concern. But to me 200$ a month isn't excessive if it gets the job done. And the protocol is basically all the supplements that I currently use.


#16

Gotcha, that's fair enough. I was trying to fit this in with your Amino Acid Pulsing method and there was no way I could swing buying enough SURGE Recovery for both of these methods.

You know, getting married has been a drag on my budget but I'm sure you feel my pain on that :slight_smile:


#17

Alright I just have to ask

When is this Anaconda stuff actually going to be availible to the masses?


#18

You add in Flameout, Leucine, Creatine, any Metabolic Drive you might use, and maybe Superfood and suddenly the monthly cost of supplements is closer to $450-500 ($300 workout nutrition cost since Anaconda isn't going to be free, plus the cost of others).

Christian, I don't disagree with your logic but there's an aspect of reality here. That's a (very nice) car payment per month. Just the workout nutrition plus the Flameout alone is a (nice) car payment per month... For some people, this version of getting the job done is simply going to be beyond their means.

I'm sure you guys are thinking about this already, but may you can write up a "Gold", "Silver", and "Bronze" workout nutrition plan based on the Biotest line up and let the masses find the best compromise of price vs. results for themselves.

I recognize that you've already provided some information like this in previous posts and similarly (in spirit at least) in your Get Jacked book, I guess I'm just throwing it out there as a suggestion to be a part of the Superprogram you all are developing.

Thanks,

Greg


#19

Are the Metabolic Drive Bars to Finibars the same as Surge Recovery is to Anaconda? An acceptable but less effective substitute?


#20

Oh yeah, I feel your pain man!!!

'Technically' any fast protein can be used for the daily pulses. Whey has been shown to be fast enough to lead to hyperaminoacidemia.

So a poor (or married) man version could be:

UPON WAKING UP
PULSE no.1 Grow! Whey 1 scoop

20 minutes later
Breakfast

MID-AM
PULSE no.2 Grow! Whey 1 scoop

Lunch
Relatiely easily absorbed protein source (the leaner, the faster)
The rest of the meal depends on your goal

PARA-WORKOUT
40 min before = 1 FINiBAR
30 min before = 2 scoops WORKOUT FUEL
10 min before = 1 scoop RECOVERY
During = 1 scoop RECOVERY

60 minutes after workout
Either Grow! Whey (if fat loss is your main goal) or RECOVERY (if mass/strength is your main goal)

30 minutes later
SUPPER
Slowly absorbed protein source like red meat
low or no carbs
Veggies
Fish oil
Nuts or almonds

BEFORE BED
Slowly absorbed protein like cottage cheese blended in with yogurt or low-carbs Metabolic Drive