The discussion of this program began in another thread, but I thought it deserved its own.
T-Member Mykayl claims some pretty incredible progress and gives credit to the following training schedule:
Week 1 - every day, Monday-Saturday, do flat bench (db or bb), a pulling exercise, and an overhead press (db or bb). Week 2 - every day, Monday-Saturday, do one squatting exercise, stiff-leg deadlift variation, and a leg raise variation. Week 3 - repeat week one. Week 4 - repeat week two.
and so on...
He also recommends keeping the exercises constant until you stagnate, at which point you take a 2 week break and start anew.
He cites 4 different "levels."
1) Beginner (benches less than bodyweight) do 6 sets of each exercise, starting with a weight you can do 8-12 reps with, one minute rest btw sets, leave a rep or two in reserve each set.
2) Intermediate (benches bodyweight) do 12 sets of each exercise, weight selection as above.
3) Advanced (benches greater than 1.5 times bodyweight) do 18 sets of each exercise, weight selection as above.
4) Super Advanced (benches greater than 2 times bodyweight) do 24 sets of each exercise, weight selections as above. Another option is to pick 2 exercises in each category and do them for 12 sets each.
I, for one, find this intriguing and am going to try it out starting tomorrow.
Let's forget the countless years of research the soviets put into their weightlifting programs and all the muscle wasting disease research done to date. Not to mention the tried and true methods that the pros have used-let's forget that too. Now imagine a world where a creepy looking forumite can put 7 inches on his arms in a year with his dad's ultimate 'Navy Program'. He must be on to something...
Mykayl is claiming huge results on this program (natural 24" arms and 66" chest). Tremendous claims require tremendous proof. He's offered none, no pics, no anecdotes other than his, not a scanned pic of his father's HYOOGE navy pals. I'm remaining doubtful until I see something more tangible. Maybe he's got the secret, if so prove it.
i'm asking people to help me prove it. 1 person alone is never enough, even if i had pics from that period; no one wants to believe something they can't see happening first hand. i'm corresponding with 1 guy who so far seems to be doing pretty good with it. he's been giving me a play-by-play, and he's getting the same immediate results of sustained pump, increased post-workout energy and cardiovascular effect. that's not indicative of a long term effect, but it's a start, and it might help people to understand the underlying mechanism.
from what i've seen with it, there's a CNS adaptation effect, a chronic flushing effect, and a deep muscle and tendon stimulating effect. the chronic pump effects last through the rest-period when doing the other half of the split; i'm doing lower body this week, and i'm still getting an upper body pump-sensation. altogether, that's a formula for optimum hypertrophy. optimum hypertrophy differs for each person, but i quit using performance enhancing supplements when i started using this routine, because they made no significant improvement.
i don't even think steroids would improve the anabolic effect i get from using this routine; if anything, they would undermine the growth mechanism by drastically changing the parameters.
as for me, i'll post some pics after christmas '06 to show my results so far. the pics i have up are representative of what i looked like in late july '06 just before i started; you'll have to trust that.
as for future results past the end of this year, i'll outgrow my plastic set and will have to do without oly weights until late next year. that's why i'm urging people to try it out themselves so i can get more documentation.
i only know what it does for me; i don't know that other people will get freakish results with it. i just know that it has an effect on body chemistry that goes beyond anything else i've ever tried, and that it should provide a similar advantage for others.
it's not the be-all, end-all, but it works for guys who don't have the energy to do once a week, 50-100 set blitzes on each major muscle. i tried training that way and got good results, but not being able to move for half a week doesn't feel good. this routine feels good, and takes that joint stress and spreads it out over the week, and allows for greater volume increases because of it. that equals better recovery, less injury, and from what i've seen, better growth in a shorter timeframe.
the only way anyone knows if something will work well for them is if they try it out for themselves. you can wait around for a year or two to see what results other people get, but it isn't going to tell you if it works for you. only you can do that. i didn't want to believe my dad when he told me about it cuz it sounded so crazy, but i had to try it out for myself to see if i could duplicate his alleged results. the only reason i'm sharing it with people is cuz i'm sick of all the spin about useless programs, and i hated being accused of using roids when i did what it takes to get big.
other people did stuff like this in the old days, and got competition sized mass in 1-3 years. no one wants to believe it because so many novice posers have come along and ruined it for everyone with steroids. i want to break that myth, and this is the only way it's going to get done.
last week i started a similar high frequency program where i do (for a month or two) monday: one exercise for each upper body part in five sets of five, (where i work up the intensity, starting at 60%) tuesday: lower body five sets of five again 60%, wednsday upper body 70%, thursday lower body 70% five sets of four and friday upper b. 90% and sat. lower b. 90% five sets of two to three reps sunday rest i repeat from monday in the same fashion 60-70-90 % hopefully adding weight to bb or db, also every workout over the course of week i use different exercises (no repeats in the same week), one thing to remember on high frequency programs is to have a high protein and bcaa intake.
Two months ago i started lifting again after a three year break, (My PR bench press 230kg, squat 360kg, deadlift 390kg) i'll see how it goes this time. I have replied to this thread as i believe there is a place for high frequency programs but i like to change my programs every 4-8 weeks, so is Mykayl's program supposed to be done year long? Also is Mikayl's program more suited towards bodybuilder or a strengh athlete?
ok, Mikayl's program for bodybuilders but Mikayl doesn't do supplements of any kind.. no Metabolic Drive, BCAA or ZMA(thats the three i religously take) yet grows like a weed, 7 inches in a year- crazy! well.. no further comments from me here
all year long. it's a bread-and-butter bulking routine. it's more suited to bodybuilding, but there are relative strength gains to go with it. since i started the first week of august, i've went from rowing 50 lbs to 130 lbs. that's not spectacular from what i hear from the powerlifting camp, but significant. i don't have a bench, so i use the bent row as my standard; my benching and rowing strength are about even.
hey, it's cool. i don't expect anyone to believe it without trying it for theirself. actually, i started first week of january '96, then made that size by beginning of december; i got run over on 12/4/96, and lost it all pretty quick after that. i was only 25/26 then; i've slowed down now that i'm 10 years older. that, and i don't have an olympic set, so i'm waiting to see how other people fare with it.
i figure that if all conditions were optimum (i.e., i had a bench and some decent weights), it might take me two years this time to get up from 13" to 20" arms. even doing it in 3 years drug free would be good, from what i understand. i made a fast start out of the gate (3 inches on arms and 6 on chests in 3.5 months), but i'm starting to slow down now. i honestly don't expect anyone else starting on this program to make gains that quick; everyone is different.
Supplements are not neccecary. They are there to supplement your diet. I, personally, get all of my protein from whole foods, so I need no protein supplements. I drink no-fat milk after workouts, so I need no PWO shakes. As for ZMA and BCAAs, my diet provides enough BCAAs aswell as zinc, mag, and b6.
right on! we need more competitive bodybuilders in here to bust the myths. all that stuff can help if a person doesn't get adequate nutrition from diet, but it's pointless if the diet is good.
most of the big guys i talked to from my gym days agreed on that; some do that stuff cuz they think it gives them an edge, but there's plenty of guys that bulk and compete without all that stuff. no point in wasting good money if you can do without, right?
and have you guys actually tried any supplements since the Cybergenics phase 1/2/3 came out in mid 90s? You two seem to be stuck in those days! And do you really drink low fat milk after a workout? awesome dude!
No one has really called this guy out yet, so please allow me because I have a low BS tolerance.
Mykayl, Jesus Christ I am sick of you polluting these forums with this nonsense. Let me spell it out for you: THERE IS NO MIRACLE ROUTINE.
Put up or shut up. Stop spreading filth across my computer screen.
You have been training with your dad's 1960 routine for what....5+ months now after your personal set backs? This means you are now gaining from muscle memory which equates to fast increases. Once having 20" arms your gains should be phenomenal.
Throw a pic up of your current status as reference and we will use the crappy picture of Christmas in your profile to summarize your gains.
We will then compare that fecal matter with the pics in my profile after 9 weeks training. I am confident I dont even need to post a current pic to obliterate your "gains" that you made in 3+ months more training than I have in the pics in my profile. I take only OTC supplements, diet, and train right. Beat it punk!
You have polluted several posts, and frankly I am sick of it. Put up or shut up.
And please don't reply with some long winded rhetoric with no pic. Honestly, what I can negatively say about what you write is equivalent to tossing a handful of dirt on a mountain of garbage. So stop it here.
The educated trainers on these forums will be the first to tell you supplements are essential to maximize gains, and you cannot beat the gains made with AAS.
you're not going to believe my pics anyways, so either shut the fuck up or try it yourself!
i'm struggling against a disease that causes muscle weakness and wasting, so IMO, my gains so far are pretty close to miraculous, considering that i shouldn't have made any gains at all! my gains would probably be a lot better if i didn't have porphyria. i couldn't even train in october because i was too sick to keep it up, so that means by christmas, we'll have put in about the same amount of actual training time--4 months.
no matter what kind of crap i put in my body or how effective my training method is, you're still going to be bigger than me come year's end. i have a handicap; you don't. there it is; my white flag.
you'll see the pics my mother takes of me this christmas, in a short sleeve t-shirt and shorts; the black shirt stays on cuz i need something to block the UV rays from damaging my internal organs (yeah--thats how bad my condition has become). i'm taking a break now, so i probably won't be much bigger then anyways; i just can't get a pic right now. gee; i guess that means i'll still have put in less actual training time than you by year's end. you'll still be bigger than me by then, so you still get to "win" your little dick war.
as for "miracle programs", i never made any such claim. if you read enough, you'll find record of people getting competition-size mass in 1-3 years without roids on similarly intensive programs. and yes, despite all the rumors, some guys who've made it to 24" arms claim to have done it without drugs. it's a lot of hard work, but it IS possible without drugs.
i'm not making claims for anyone but myself, and from what i've read, those claims really aren't that spectacular. it's time for you to back the fuck down, and prove for yourself whether or not it works for YOU. that's the only way you or anyone else will ever be satisfied. other people are trying it; what the fuck makes you so goddam special? you want us to hand you your health on a fucking silver platter? i thought it was crazy too, but i at least had the balls to try it out, you fucking bitch!
and how many of these experts who say supplements are necessary are competition bodybuilders? i've met plenty in my time that said supplements are unnecessary. despite endorsing them for the "hard gainer" crowd, bill pearl is one of them. in fact, that's his primary stance on his website. he's in his 70's and still has 20" arms, WITHOUT roids or supplements. he figured out at some point that he didn't need supplements, and that even meat was unnecessary.
why don't you go pick on a cancer patient for a change; no one here is supporting your bullying bullshit. if you want to waste money on crap, go for it; no one is stopping you, and most are supporting you. if no one else cares, then why the fuck are you getting so bent out of shape about my "worthless" opinion?
hey Mikayl, sorry to hear about your health problems i hope you'll get well soon! Mikayl wrote: "bill pearl is one of them. in fact, that's his primary stance on his website. he's in his 70's and still has 20" arms, WITHOUT roids or supplements. he figured out at some point that he didn't need supplements, and that even meat was unnecessary". I'll skip the supplements part since it's self explanatory why i'd use a high quality supplements like Biotest's..
So, after 50 years of trials and errors Bill Pearl figures out he didn't need all that beef.. interesting and no roids either not even a little bit.. Now i don't have a problem believing a supplement free individual is sporting 20" "competition ready" arms after 15 year hard gym training but ME- i want it in 10 or 5 years, i wanna get hyooooge and strong and i want my gym buddies to wander who could deadlift more, me or King Kong ( and all that before i reach my middle age crisis.. otherwise i might have a double crisis!! ).
On a serious note, just stop being so obsessed with this natural thing, it will only get worse as time goes by
My problem with what you are saying and doing is that you continue to hijack threads and spew nonsense you cannot back up, as well as call out the entire AAS, supplement, and training community.
Lets get one thing strait, you log onto a hardcore bulletin board and start spouting outrageous claims that you can not back up with any proof, and you will get called out for it. And you will be flamed. Make no mistake about it, and don't act surprised when it happens because it will happen.
Fact: You habitually hijack threads with the same claims and call out the entire AAS, supplement, and training community:
yet when I call you out above you claim you cannot make gains fast due to illness and making gains in and of itself is incredible considering said illness. The you have a problem with me for challenging "a handicap" person....sheesh. Then why did you make those claims?
So, what gives "growing just as fast at age 36", or making gains in and of itself is astonishing due to your illness? Your credibility is not looking good.
You ask why I do not try your routine: "what the fuck makes you so goddam special?" as you so eloquently put it. As I told you in another thread you hijacked and called out the AAS and supplement users:
I cannot try any other routine until February. Try reading the following thread instead of hijacking other's to understand why I am not trying another program until that time and "what makes me so god dam special":
i don't know how you got this idea that i was in competition with you; i'm not. i can't even play by your contest rules, cuz my routine is a split. it doesn't matter anyways, cuz i already gained 20 lbs lean mass since august. besides; i joined T-Nation in september. i was just here to check out pics in the physique and performance photos forum to get psyched up for my own personal struggle.
as for this whole dumbass flamewar business, it started when i posted my own goals while praising cutler. some asshole who doesn't know how to mind his own business comes along and implies that my goals are impossible to achieve, despite there being historical precidence for such size being gained drug free (louis cyr is one example).
i then cited my own past results, and the fact that it can be done without drugs or supplements in 1-3 years; anyone who reads up on the history of bodybuilding enough can find proof of that. i went on a rampage to bring attention to my routine so that over time, others could test it and show some results that would put such ignorant doubters in their place.
yeah i know; it's a dick move on my part, hijacking all those innocent threads. what can i say; i'm a cold, evil asshole...
as for you and i, judging by your october pics, we look proportionately about the same, despite our height differences. we even started with the same relative proportions. but since you've mistaken me for a "contestant", i'll just keep plugging along until your contest end-date and post my pics then.
ooooh, doesn't it just irk you? too fuckin' bad. you pissed me off, so i'm moving shit forward just to get under your skin...
you can't prove that what i'm saying is nonsense, cuz all you're using is testimonials from guys that are endorsing supplements to try to get you to buy something. that automatically makes anything they have to say suspect.
read your history before making such baseless assumptions. you and i both have broken these supposed "rules" pertaining to how fast a person can gain lean mass, with or without supplements. we're not the first people to do it either. that alone should tell you that what i'm saying might actually be based in fact.