T Nation

My Weird Off Cycle. What About Yours?

I always go completely off. After a 8-14 week cycle, I do a 6 week “stasis” period of 100mg weekly of 50Test/50Masteron, followed by a 2-3 week taper with Nolva added. When I go totally off afterward, the process is totally smooth. Highly recommended and thanks to Prisoner for introducing us to this. Thing is I’m at an age most athlete have retired, and going off means I feel my age again, and well, it sucks.

I’ve been totally off for a few weeks now, and I’ve lost muscle and gained fat compared to my on cycle peak of course, but not that bad. My upper body has amazingly stayed pretty close to the same (except for the added belly fat). Legs are a lot smaller. I just can’t figure out why at all. It never happened this way. Only difference is the use of peptides.

My libido is decent (better than my age group for sure), I even have morning wood, no problem there. I wake up feeling fine and not like I’ve been run over by a truck, which I sometimes felt in other off cycles. Mood is great too. That does point to complete recovery. What’s even more weird is that my strength has gone slightly UP, even for legs.

But my recuperation capacity is down, and I mean waaaayyyy down. I have 2 or 3 weakass training sessions a week at most: 60% intense weight training or MMA routine, 40-60min bike ride instead of 2+ hours. After one leg workout I had sore hamstrings for 8 days! I don’t get it. As I barely train anymore, it doesn’t affect my “real life” but I do want to train!

Anyone ever experience something like that or some other weird stuff?

Honestly don’t think you got a damn clue how cycling works man, or how hormones work for that matter
a taper is never a taper when your continually delaying your pct, and shut down while taking test and mast

you want a true taper, get the hell off test and mast, and use igf lr3 this will keep you gaining well past pct and into your next cycle IF…done correctly

my advice if you gonna run it RUN IT BIG!, don’t run shit as a taper or as a bullshit cruise 100-400mg of whatever
keep cycling if you want to cycle, if you don’t then stop and use hcg, or igf, not nolva

pm me if you have any specific questions PM me cz i bet noone else is gonna respond to this post

Well Jason, from your join date it shows you’re new to this board, so do yourself a favor and read the Test Taper Protocol that’s a sticky. And there’s a reason it’s a sticky!

Now, not everyone agrees that it’s the way to go, but most people that have tried it rave about it. Don’t take my word for it, read the thread. We don’t taper or maintain at a low cycle level which I agree would only postpone recovery without any benefits, but only use 100mg a week at most. That’s the difference right there. It allows for many things to return to normal before we go off, instead of the cold turkey + PCT drugs approach.

And most vets here recommend HCG while on cycle, not for off cycle. I’ve never used it though. I do wonder how you use igf lr3.

[quote]SwD wrote:
Well Jason, from your join date it shows you’re new to this board, so do yourself a favor and read the Test Taper Protocol that’s a sticky. And there’s a reason it’s a sticky!

Now, not everyone agrees that it’s the way to go, but most people that have tried it rave about it. Don’t take my word for it, read the thread. We don’t taper or maintain at a low cycle level which I agree would only postpone recovery without any benefits, but only use 100mg a week at most. That’s the difference right there. It allows for many things to return to normal before we go off, instead of the cold turkey + PCT drugs approach.

And most vets here recommend HCG while on cycle, not for off cycle. I’ve never used it though. I do wonder how you use igf lr3.
[/quote]

There is a reason why i have 1100 views on my thread in past 3 weeks, because although im new to this board, i am not new to what were discussing as of now, trying to help you out, now if you want to just be an average guy on a bandwagon full of average fokes, then keep doing what your doing, just because its a sticky doesn’t mean anything to me

the fact your doing something based off someone elses plan tells me your don’t know much, or aren’t willing to try new things
same plan=same results=average whatever your trying to do

kind alike politics just because most of america agreed with obama being president ( a national sticky if you will) doesn’t mean you have to go and jump on the bandwagon

in the famous words of arnold- " be a maverick break the norms break the rules, but don’t break the laws" haha

and to be honest hcg in cycle, but not post cycle isn’t very smart, since its so good at boosting natural test back into place why would you use it while shutdown, but not when your trying to recovery??? not a lot of sense to me

another thing you don’t seem to understand is halflifes, by going cold turkey you aren’t actually cold turkey you still have test in your system similar to this

last week 500mg
next week 250mg
2nd week pct 125mg

so technically your silly approach to pct is exposing your lack of knowledge for half lifes, as long as we are talking an ethanate ester type length here. the long ester DOES TAPER, so why taper another two weeks

heres what a taper of 100mg a test does for blood levels

last week 500mg
next week taper 350mg
next week taper 275mg
next week taper 23oishmg

your nowhere near being off your just extending a cycle with weak dose, so the smart thing to do instead is just stay on another two weeks.

so technically there is no cold turkey as the drug has a depot in body for a long time releasing the drug over time don’t believe me?
you don’t have to keep making your own damn mistake based on listening to people who aren’t even willing to help most guys out, and simply flame them for asking for advice.

i cant wait to check this when i wake up.

[quote]jasonneel wrote:
There is a reason why i have 1100 views on my thread in past 3 weeks, because although im new to this board, i am not new to what were discussing as of now, trying to help you out, now if you want to just be an average guy on a bandwagon full of average fokes, then keep doing what your doing, just because its a sticky doesn’t mean anything to me[/quote]

No, you’re definitely new to what’s being discussed here, that much is obvious.

Now if you’re actually open to adding new info to your knowledge base, dig thru the archives here and you just may find that actual user experiences kinda tend to trump calculations and half-life tables.

This board used to attract (and retain) plenty of original and outside-the-box thinkers, science-minded individuals (ie. data-based conclusions, and yes, sometimes n = 1) and the like, and at least the archives still capture that.

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]jasonneel wrote:
There is a reason why i have 1100 views on my thread in past 3 weeks, because although im new to this board, i am not new to what were discussing as of now, trying to help you out, now if you want to just be an average guy on a bandwagon full of average fokes, then keep doing what your doing, just because its a sticky doesn’t mean anything to me[/quote]

No, you’re definitely new to what’s being discussed here, that much is obvious.

Now if you’re actually open to adding new info to your knowledge base, dig thru the archives here and you just may find that actual user experiences kinda tend to trump calculations and half-life tables.

This board used to attract (and retain) plenty of original and outside-the-box thinkers, science-minded individuals (ie. data-based conclusions, and yes, sometimes n = 1) and the like, and at least the archives still capture that.

[/quote]

How do you think i came up with my conclusions damn ass EXPERIENCE which i have a lot of
i don’t need an archive to tell me that using NOLVA ONLY, and wait for it…TAPERING TEST LOL is a terrible idea.

this kinda reminds me of when kids( you and the person who started this thread) don’t listen to their parents(me), and have to learn the hard way on their own, by losing all their gains.

the guy didn’t even know what IGF is

ENOUGH SAID

So there is no purpose to a taper? Right.
First of all who the fuck tapers with the enanthate ester? You are right that the enanthate ester will eventually taper itself, the stasis period is meant to be to allow the drugs to clear.
Then the use of shorter esters is utilised to maintain an accurate understanding of mg in the blood.
The whole point of using a 50/50 combo of test p and mast is to maintain non-suppressive levels of hormone in the blood while allowing the body to normalise.

‘A taper is never a taper’, explain how progressively decreasing the dose of drug administered is not a taper?

Are you for real? Enough of your bullshit similies, please provide some scientific backing to your claims.

SB

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
So there is no purpose to a taper? Right.
First of all who the fuck tapers with the enanthate ester? You are right that the enanthate ester will eventually taper itself, the stasis period is meant to be to allow the drugs to clear.
Then the use of shorter esters is utilised to maintain an accurate understanding of mg in the blood.
The whole point of using a 50/50 combo of test p and mast is to maintain non-suppressive levels of hormone in the blood while allowing the body to normalise.

‘A taper is never a taper’, explain how progressively decreasing the dose of drug administered is not a taper?

Are you for real? Enough of your bullshit similies, please provide some scientific backing to your claims.

SB[/quote]

since 100mg of test isnt suppressive? where is your science showing a taper actually doesn’t shut you down or even works?
i can pull up plenty of info that test at 100mg suppresses the fuck out of someone, or 50mg for that matter suppresses anyone natural test a good bit.

Not be a dick here Jason, but this discussion has been done before. The word “taper” brings a knee-jerk reaction. But read the AMOUNTS used again.

At 100mg max a week (plus a little Adex thrown in), you do NOT go back to normal! You are still shut off, but not as completely. It’s not just an off and on switch. And it DOES make the PCT period longer. No one is denying that.

It’s just that everything else but the testes go back to the usual levels, so that when you do go off, only that has to be “taken care of”, instead of a ton of “adjustments” the body has to make all at once. So it is indeed a much longer process, but almost everyone who’s done it reports a super successful transition to going off. And that’s nothing to sneeze at!

Anyway, I was more interested in what people experience when then they go off. Reading between the lines, it seems to me not many heavy users really go off at all! They blast and cruise, or are on for 16 weeks and off for 4…

I’ve been using Indigo (the Biotest supplement) and peptides, but no AAS at all. Again, my upper body is almost the same, my legs have shrunk like never before (WTF??), I train rarely and not hard at all, yet I’m a tad stronger (that never happened before!) yet I can’t recuperate from a workout. If I’d be off forever, I’d lose it all after a while, since not training for a long period would mean inevitable muscle loss.

In fact, I’m considering staying at TRT levels from now on with the occasional real cycle (blast) thrown in. It’s just that staying on a drug permanently doesn’t sound right to me.

[quote]SwD wrote:
Not be a dick here Jason, but this discussion has been done before. The word “taper” brings a knee-jerk reaction. But read the AMOUNTS used again.

At 100mg max a week (plus a little Adex thrown in), you do NOT go back to normal! You are still shut off, but not as completely. It’s not just an off and on switch. And it DOES make the PCT period longer. No one is denying that.

It’s just that everything else but the testes go back to the usual levels, so that when you do go off, only that has to be “taken care of”, instead of a ton of “adjustments” the body has to make all at once. So it is indeed a much longer process, but almost everyone who’s done it reports a super successful transition to going off. And that’s nothing to sneeze at!

Anyway, I was more interested in what people experience when then they go off. Reading between the lines, it seems to me not many heavy users really go off at all! They blast and cruise, or are on for 16 weeks and off for 4…

I’ve been using Indigo (the Biotest supplement) and peptides, but no AAS at all. Again, my upper body is almost the same, my legs have shrunk like never before (WTF??), I train rarely and not hard at all, yet I’m a tad stronger (that never happened before!) yet I can’t recuperate from a workout. If I’d be off forever, I’d lose it all after a while, since not training for a long period would mean inevitable muscle loss.

In fact, I’m considering staying at TRT levels from now on with the occasional real cycle (blast) thrown in. It’s just that staying on a drug permanently doesn’t sound right to me.

[/quote]

gotcha defiantly explained it in a way i understand now

[quote]
i can pull up plenty of info that test at 100mg suppresses the fuck out of someone, or 50mg for that matter suppresses anyone natural test a good bit.[/quote]

Then please show me this scientific info. I am actually genuinely interested.

SB

Since TRT levels shut people down, it goes to show that 100mg is suppressive, and 50mg is partly suppressive as well. The Test Taper Protocol is unique to our site so far as I know, and the word “Taper” always brings a reaction, as “normal” tapers are indeed useless, so that’s why I understood Jason’s reaction.

I’d rather call it the Test Stasis Protocol myself. I really feel the power of this PCT approach is in the stasis period. And there wouldn’t be that dreaded word “taper” :slight_smile:

Anyone has had off cycles of note to write about?

[quote]jasonneel wrote:

There is a reason why i have 1100 views on my thread in past 3 weeks, because although im new to this board, i am not new to what were discussing as of now, trying to help you out, now if you want to just be an average guy on a bandwagon full of average fokes, then keep doing what your doing, just because its a sticky doesn’t mean anything to me[/quote]

It has nothing to do with what a special unique snowflake you are. Its because you are on a fuckload of gear and post every single day, keeping your thread at the top. Careful not to break your arm reaching around patting yourself on the back as such.

[quote]

the fact your doing something based off someone elses plan tells me your don’t know much, or aren’t willing to try new things
same plan=same results=average whatever your trying to do [/quote]

So you didn’t have ANY guidance at all, none whatsoever when you started? Ok clown.

[quote]
and to be honest hcg in cycle, but not post cycle isn’t very smart, since its so good at boosting natural test back into place why would you use it while shutdown, but not when your trying to recovery??? not a lot of sense to me[/quote]

It probably doesn’t make a lot of sense to you, but that is because you might be partially brain damaged. Taking HCG, which is suppressive, while you are trying to recover from being suppressed makes more sense to you? LOL ok chief.

This is gold.