T Nation

My Vote's in the Mail

So this is becoming an issue I thought deserves its own thread.

Depending on the angle you lean this is ranging from rigging the election via voter suppression through to rigging the election via fraud and/or incompetence and everything in-between

To me there are a few issues, the capability of remote (for want of a better word) voting and then the use of mail instead of something more sensible.

Discuss either.

I am really concerned that because this is now a hugely popular issue that lots of folks will start messing with the process- sending fake ballots out, fake instructions, etc and just erode the confidence in the mail-in voting process to the point that a large portion of the population will not accept the results.

Also issues with not knowing the results of the election for a few days after election night as we finish counting. I do like the idea that there will be an official FB page that will have the most up-to-date vote tracking available in order to limit misinformation spreading.

I just dont really understand (because im not IT) why it cannot be online voting. I mean, i file my damn taxes online and thats fairly complicated. Why cant online voting be a safe, secure thing? that would likely be the most popular way to vote by far, and then you would also have normal mail-in, and in-person voting for those that wanted it.

It shouldn’t be made as big a deal as it is. People had the option to do either in 2018. In 2016 something like 20% voted by mail and last I checked the side that is losing their shit over it’s candidate won. And the candidate losing his shit and trying to get creative with “absentee” balloting votes by mail.

Potential issues? Fuck yeah. But we’ve seen issues when we vote in person as well. Why not give people the option? Why not work now to take steps that make it less likely to have issues? Why not spread the election over three days and give people more time to vote?

Plenty of ways to do this and we’ve known corona would play into it for a long time now.

It should be. You can do your taxes, get your tags, check your money, etc. just like all the shit they can send you in the mail. We can trust the mail for birth certificates, census, taxes, social security cards, payments, etc but it can’t be trusted with voting?

The U.S. Postal issue is the kind of stuff I really thought I’d only see happening in Central America, Russia or some other 3rd world country.

In review: Trump appoints a crony as Postmaster General who hasn’t divested himself of stock and options that present a conflict of interest, and who is actively trying to slow the mail down. Trump himself has said that he’s denying funds to the Post Office so that they cannot handle mail in voting: https://apnews.com/14a2ceda724623604cc8d8e5ab9890ed

It looks to be an open attempt at voter suppression for the coming election.

Voter suppression is a common Republican goal.

True, but it’s usually at the state and local level and not admitted to on the most watched tv channel in the country.

That would involve the existence of mail in Central America. That “Basic” service simply does not exist in many places. Yes, I know that there are Nicaraguan stamps as well as stamps from other CA countries, but first-hand I can tell you that is hilarious. There is positively no mail delivery in many of these places, that is a non-existent public service. And the effect on a country is surprisingly large. Like the idea of having an actual address. A magic moment brought to you by mail delivery and non-existent in places without it. the address to my apartment in Nicaragua is a paragragh long, because there’s no address system, it reads like a deed description.

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That makes sense and I appreciate the education on the subject. I’ve been to C.A. 6-8 times mostly on business in the last 15 years or so and your words don’t surprise me based on what I saw. The point I was making had more to do with large scale graft that’s right out in the open perpetrated by a demagogue who doesn’t feel any need to mask his intentions.

I cannot argue with that. It is very much an NYC mob move as far as I’m concerned, but totally predictable and unsurprising in this case.

If you had to request a mail in ballot, I don’t think I’d have an issue with it. Proactively mailing every registered voter a ballot opens up too many issues to be comfortable with.

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Because they are unwilling or unable to alter their messaging to appeal to more people. The Democrats are at risk of following in their footsteps as they are starting to appeal to a narrower voter pool.

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If I had to hazard a guess, I would say there would be serious concerns about hacking.

Moreover, if paper ballots are contentious, imagine the heat surrounding an online vote. How would you ensure that those looking at it would be neutral etc.

I’m not necessarily opposed to online voting, but in the current hyper partisan US, I can imagine it floating about as well as a lead balloon.

Just to give a counterpoint, not that I really disagree, there were allegations in the last US election of widespread voter fraud, people voting multiple times under different names and even dead people being registered to vote, as well as illegal immigrants. Also the Democrats were in favor of dropping photo ID as a requirement to vote, this is essentially taking it a step further.

In theory, there is no reason why voting can’t be done by mail or online but it needs to be set up properly.

I don’t know about Nicaragua, but in some countries where many people have no address you send mail to the nearest post office.

If you read right wing websites then that’s what they say every election not just this one or the last one. But we don’t have any evidence of widespread voter fraud at any significant level. And much of that voter fraud hasn’t even been Dems. But yes the right has always said illegals and dead people are voting in the millions or something. And of course the right is saying no one has ever fraudulently voted for them or something.

Never said I believe it, just mentioning that this is their story.

On the other side of the equation, with COVID there is now the opportunity for some major vote suppression. While many Trump supporters think it’s all a hoax or nothing much to worry about, Democrat voters are much more likely to be scared to various degrees which could include being afraid to leave the house to attend any sort of large gathering such as a voting station. Hard to say how much of an impact that would have but quite likely it’s not negligible, especially if it’s going to be a close election.

Yep, I see this happening with Democrats as well. For a while they’ve been the coastal elitist party that talks down to people in red states and it’s getting worse with the terrible BLM messaging happening now. Democrats should really consider it a huge hole in their platform if Trump can often connect with working class white people better than they can.

edit to add: with BLM it’s more than terrible messaging as the movement itself is Marxist. I meant the Democrats association with BLM and the problems that causes with moderate R’s and D’s.

Nicaragua has one post office that I am aware of. For the whole country. And no mail carriers. And the post office might actually be an empty building with a sign on it for appearances. There is not even an idea of an attempt to have or use a postal system, and this is common for Central American countries in my experience.

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Speaking of voter fraud, whatever happened to Trump’s claims of voter fraud in 2016 that cost him 3-5 million votes. He put a commission together to find some way to claim he won the popular vote instead of losing to HRC by 3 million votes. I wonder what they found.

Yep. Democratic voters are far more likely to be the ones afraid to do in person voting due to Covid as compared to Republican. Its obvious when looking at who took, and continues to take covid more seriously.

I am voting in person. We haven’t gotten to the general and there have already been tons of problems with mail in voting. 20% of the votes in an NY primary not counted. 100,000 votes in California disqualified, then there is the voter fraud cases in NJ. Screw that, I am walking in and hitting my buttons.