[quote]oboffill wrote:
NNNNate! wrote:
Adapt and improvise. If you can’t compete on price, as with the case with Walmart, change your business to offer something Walmart can’t.
Obviously, you’ve never been to Walmart. They sell EVERYTHING a human being will ever need.
Walmart is a fitting example, by the way. [/quote]
Wal-mart may sell pretty much anything you need or want, but just the items a store sells are not all that attracts customers. Many people will pay more for a higher quality product, and many will pay more at a store with better service/people working there.
People like a clean store also, and wal-mart has trouble with that sometimes…
Wal-mart may sell pretty much anything you need or want, but just the items a store sells are not all that attracts customers. Many people will pay more for a higher quality product, and many will pay more at a store with better service/people working there.
People like a clean store also, and wal-mart has trouble with that sometimes…[/quote]
This is exactly why Wal-mart is not the only store around. I’m thrilled to have a Wal-mart right down the street.
I have a story about competition. We have this rather large tree behind our house, it needs cut down. So we started getting estimates and they were all around $2000 for what amounts to a mornings worth of work for a couple guys. This is just nuts, but since I can’t do it and there is not enough competition in that market, you have no choice but to pay it. We eventually found someone that will do it for half the cost. Competition is a great thing.
You can argue whether having all our products made over seas is good or not, but the competition between the stores is great.
[quote]oboffill wrote:
What I don’t like about capitalism is that the focus is on wealth itself. In my crazy head, I dream of a society which values REAL things which impact society. I would like to see a society which measures it’s progress by amount of good done to humanity, not GDP. [/quote]
Here we go again. I think this is the fourth time in the last six months that a post like this has been created.
I dream of a society where people who proclaim that business and capitalism are bad first start and run a business to see the real value they offer society. This way they can realize that it’s not all about greed, and it’s incredibly hard work to satisfy your customers, your employees, and in some cases stockholders; customers being the most import since if they think you can’t offer them something worthwhile they will leave. The competition forces us to improve and innovate, thus improving the market with better systems and products.
[quote]oboffill wrote:
I am against wastefulness. I value science, art, beauty, love, truth. Capitalism does not value these things.
[/quote]
Two great examples against this are Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods, which are capitalistic grocery stores that do value those things, and their customers value them as well.
As I’ve posted before on this same topic, the criticisms against capitalism are actually against unethical people which has to do much more with human nature and discipline than it does with any economic or political system.
Exactly.
Businesses should stop clinging to their product even as they go down in flames. Find the “starving crowd” and tailor your service to them. If Amtrak knew this there’d be a whole lotta Amtrak airplanes flying around.
[quote]Jagrazor wrote:
oboffill wrote:
NNNNate! wrote:
Adapt and improvise. If you can’t compete on price, as with the case with Walmart, change your business to offer something Walmart can’t.
Obviously, you’ve never been to Walmart. They sell EVERYTHING a human being will ever need.
Walmart is a fitting example, by the way.
Wal-mart may sell pretty much anything you need or want, but just the items a store sells are not all that attracts customers. Many people will pay more for a higher quality product, and many will pay more at a store with better service/people working there.
People like a clean store also, and wal-mart has trouble with that sometimes…[/quote]
[quote]oboffill wrote:
Furthermore, I have no real solution to the problems capitalism presents. Maybe one day I’ll figure it out.
As it is, capitalism is limiting us as a species. How long can we really keep playing this game of greed? [/quote]
Capitalism is actually elevating us as a species. It creates opportunity. That equality of opportunity elevates those that choose to help themselves. It’s not about equality of outcome.
The poor in the US actually enjoy a higher standard of living then the middle class in many countries. Want to guess what percentage of those below the poverty line in the US own a color TV, DVD player, automobile and personal computer?
[quote]oboffill wrote:
What I don’t like about capitalism is that the focus is on wealth itself. In my crazy head, I dream of a society which values REAL things which impact society. I would like to see a society which measures it’s progress by amount of good done to humanity, not GDP.
[/quote]
What I don’t like about capitalism is that the focus is on wealth itself.[/quote]
No, it doesn’t. Capitalism is value-neutral. The people can focus on whatever they want based on their osn virtues or lack thereof. Capitalism merely lets people do what they want - it does not encourage people to prioritize one thing or another.
Economists will tell you over and over GDP is not the end-all-be-all of quality of life measurement. It is just something useful that can be measured.
Wrong - capitalism doesn’t value anything, it is a politico-economic system that recognizes private property, freedom of choice, and trade. In a capitalist society, you can like whatever the hell you want - in other words, ‘capitalism’ doesn’t care.
Actually not enough power is concentrated in the hands of any single entity for any real change to take place.
[/quote]
Maybe you should unify the three powers. That always seems to work out…
Arguing if capitalism is good or not is retarded. It is an economic system that evolved on its own. As such, it is necessary. This is not to say that it has always been necessary (it hasn’t) or will always be (I personally don’t believe it will). I think even the most hard-line communist (with any sort of education) will freely acknowledge that capitalism was an improvement over feudalism, which was an improvement over the system before that, and so on.
The argument that someone always gets the short end of the stick in capitalism is kind of pointless, since the same is true in any economic, political, or social system, in some way. I personally like the fact that if I am smarter than you, you will not be able to screw me over, and that in my dealings, I choose my own morality in conduct.
Thanks for the replies guys. Besides the bigflamer’s post, this has been good discussion thus far.
So what if I dare to dream? What did naysayers ever accomplish on this Earth?
You guys might be right. I think I’m erroneously blaming capitalism. However, something is wrong here. We waste so much of the world resources in this country, when so many people are starving.
When I was a small boy my mom told me, “Never throw away food. There are people in other places who can’t even afford to eat.” Any of my friends will tell you that when I bring my dishes to the kitchen, they look like they came out of the dishwasher. I feel so guilty when I see everybody else at the table leave food on their plate that, oftentimes, I will eat their food as well. People call me weird, as you can imagine.
But fuck man. How can you not feel guilty? I know that 99% of the American population doesn’t give a shit about the less fortunate. I see people so self involved that any little thing that goes wrong is the end of the world to them. Yeah lady, live in Nicaragua for a little while and let’s see how much a cancelled appointment to the hair salon really matters to you.
I’m just disappointed in humanity. What else can I say.
Everyone except the guy down the street who was selling candy from his drugstore for years before you came along and undercut him. Your gain is his loss, and when Walmart comes along and opens a super store just outside of town, you will lose as well.
You capitalized on the pharmacist’s inability to grow and maintain his market share, and Walmart capitalized on your inability to buy candy from China by the container ship load. [/quote]
Where do think Sam Walton started? He didn’t start with mega-stores, he started small, gave his customers what they wanted and was rewarded with success. Just like anyone else can do.
[quote]
It’s a pretty rare case where someone winning doesn’t also entail someone, somewhere, losing.[/quote]
It is not a total sum game. It is not like a pie, where for me to take a larger peice, you must have a smaller peice. When someone creates a new innovation or product, they create success for themselves, as well as create opportunity for others.
But fuck man. How can you not feel guilty? I know that 99% of the American population doesn’t give a shit about the less fortunate. [/quote]
I see the outpouring of aid for Katrina victims and think that 99% of the American Population cares.
[quote]oboffill wrote:
Yeah lady, live in Nicaragua for a little while and let’s see how much a cancelled appointment to the hair salon really matters to you.
[/quote]
Don’t judge until you walk a mile in thier shoes. If you feel guilty then that’s something you have to work through. I feel blessed knowing my family doesn’t have to go hungry. I give aid to charity whenever I can, but I will never demand (not that you are) someone else give as well. The second you do that it’s no longer an ethical act.
But fuck man. How can you not feel guilty? I know that 99% of the American population doesn’t give a shit about the less fortunate.[/quote]
You can want more from humanity, but this statement is patently untrue.
Look no further that hurricane relief. Forget what the government did or didn’t do for a minute - look at the response of people. I’d throw in tsunami relief.
I don’t share your cynicism and I recommend you look about. You might be surprised.
[quote]oboffill wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys. Besides the bigflamer’s post, this has been good discussion thus far.
So what if I dare to dream? What did naysayers ever accomplish on this Earth?
You guys might be right. I think I’m erroneously blaming capitalism. However, something is wrong here. We waste so much of the world resources in this country, when so many people are starving.
When I was a small boy my mom told me, “Never throw away food. There are people in other places who can’t even afford to eat.” Any of my friends will tell you that when I bring my dishes to the kitchen, they look like they came out of the dishwasher. I feel so guilty when I see everybody else at the table leave food on their plate that, oftentimes, I will eat their food as well. People call me weird, as you can imagine.
But fuck man. How can you not feel guilty? I know that 99% of the American population doesn’t give a shit about the less fortunate. I see people so self involved that any little thing that goes wrong is the end of the world to them. Yeah lady, live in Nicaragua for a little while and let’s see how much a cancelled appointment to the hair salon really matters to you.
I’m just disappointed in humanity. What else can I say.[/quote]
I will agree that capitalism has become inefficient, and will become moreso as technology advances. This is what makes me a “commie”; I believe that at some point, the goal of production will shift from generating profit to satisfying needs. If this happens, I don’t think it’ll be because of a revolution (or a series of revolutions), I think it will be plain old necessity.
Capitalism can come in handy here. You can make a lot of money and use it all for charity.
[quote]oboffill wrote:
But fuck man. How can you not feel guilty? I know that 99% of the American population doesn’t give a shit about the less fortunate. I see people so self involved that any little thing that goes wrong is the end of the world to them. Yeah lady, live in Nicaragua for a little while and let’s see how much a cancelled appointment to the hair salon really matters to you.
[/quote]
[quote]oboffill wrote:
…when I see everybody else at the table leave food on their plate that, oftentimes, I will eat their food as well. People call me weird, as you can imagine.
[/quote]
I do this as part of my bulking program.
I think you have too much hope and faith in humanity in general. 99% of the human race isn’t worth a pinch of piss. In general, we are lazy, selfish, stupid, arrogant and can’t think for our selves. You eating everyones food due to guilt isn’t going to change that.
I will agree that capitalism has become inefficient, and will become moreso as technology advances. This is what makes me a “commie”; I believe that at some point, the goal of production will shift from generating profit to satisfying needs. If this happens, I don’t think it’ll be because of a revolution (or a series of revolutions), I think it will be plain old necessity.[/quote]
Technology advanced because of capitalism. Efficiency is bred out of capitalism. Capitalism generates profits by creating a “need” and then supply a solution for it.
The only way I think we will get away from capitalism is when we all stop working 60 hours a week in jobs we hate to buy shit we dont need (thank-you Mr Durden). When we start concentrating on what really matters, then your material needs diminish. When your material needs diminish, then capitalism decreases.
I will agree that capitalism has become inefficient, and will become moreso as technology advances. This is what makes me a “commie”; I believe that at some point, the goal of production will shift from generating profit to satisfying needs. If this happens, I don’t think it’ll be because of a revolution (or a series of revolutions), I think it will be plain old necessity.[/quote]
I’m interested. Could you clarify? How will advances in technology make capitalism inefficient? It’s been my exexperience that it makes it more efficient. Also, the goal of production is to satisfy a need. Why produce something no one wants?
No, not aside. That would be ignoring facts that don’t support your beliefs rather than dealing with them. I think you’d agree that we don’t live in a vacuum.
