T Nation

My View On American Politics

People trust men with ridiculous amounts of power entirely too often.

Political parties function like cults.

Many lay Republicans are actually Democrats.

Many Washington Democrats are actually Republicans.

Many Democrats are idealists.

Idealists do not belong in American politics. Why? In capitalism, someone is always getting shafted. That’s how this system works.

Most voters don’t understand my last point.

Jesus was NOT a Republican.

The government does not have your best interests in mind. Re:Capitalism.

And the obvious: the masses are asses.

How should the government work? I’ll save that for another thread.

[quote]oboffill wrote:
People trust men with ridiculous amounts of power entirely too often.[/quote]

Actually not enough power is concentrated in the hands of any single entity for any real change to take place.

I wonder would it be better to have many parties so that 5 or 10 candidates run for President and someone with 23% (for example) of the vote wins.

I think it has always been the case that there are shared issues and concerns on both sides. Many republicans are pro choice. Many democrats are against gun control.

True enough. It didn’t used to be this way. I’ll let it go at that.

They make good teachers though…Well not all the time.

Wow that’s sort of harsh do you have a personal story you would like to share?

No indeed, I can’t imagine that Jesus cared all that much about politics. I have a feeling he would not be for capital punishment which is a big republican issue. On the other hand I would bet that he is not all that fond of the democrats abortion stance.

I think it’s safe to say Jesus is not political.

I think some of them think they have our best interest in mind. Many of them simply worry about being reelected from day one and say and do everything to make that happen-both parties!

With some things I agree. Then again with other things I think they show remarkable insight.

ZEB, I’d just like to comment on one of your replies right now.

Capitalism is exactly that, people capitalizing. Everywhere you turn someone is getting fucked. It is the nature of the beast.

I think that’s exactly what makes it the best option. Any sort of system or government that tries to eliminate the competitive nature of humans . . . sucks.

[quote]oboffill wrote:
ZEB, I’d just like to comment on one of your replies right now.

Capitalism is exactly that, people capitalizing. Everywhere you turn someone is getting fucked. It is the nature of the beast.
[/quote]

[quote]oboffill wrote:
ZEB, I’d just like to comment on one of your replies right now.

Capitalism is exactly that, people capitalizing. Everywhere you turn someone is getting fucked. It is the nature of the beast.
[/quote]

Wow the 21st centuries answer to Karl Marx. I’ll buy your manifesto Obo, I just ran out of toilet paper anyway.

[quote]oboffill wrote:
ZEB, I’d just like to comment on one of your replies right now.

Capitalism is exactly that, people capitalizing. Everywhere you turn someone is getting fucked. It is the nature of the beast.
[/quote]

I’m not sure I follow your line of reasoning. If I open a candy store I am helping everyone. I purchase candy from a manufacturer, or distributor. I rent, or buy a shop on the corner from a land owner. I hire three people who previous to this either did not have jobs or had lower paying jobs. Finally, I sell a quality product to the public to enjoy and I profit from it. I now pay more taxes to the government, thus increasing the tax base.

It seems like everyone wins with capatalism.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m not sure I follow your line of reasoning. If I open a candy store I am helping everyone. I purchase candy from a manufacturer, or distributor. I rent, or buy a shop on the corner from a land owner. I hire three people who previous to this either did not have jobs or had lower paying jobs. Finally, I sell a quality product to the public to enjoy and I profit from it. I now pay more taxes to the government, thus increasing the tax base.

It seems like everyone wins with capatalism. [/quote]

ZEB, I generally agree with you on capitalism being a good thing. However, the part of your story where “I now pay more taxes to the government, thus increasing the tax base.” is decidedly uncapitalistic. True, that’s the way it mostly works here in the States, but if it were up to the capitalist(s) the money would stay in private hands.

The part where you get to taxes is where the utopia falls apart. If you really believed in capitalism you wouldn’t need the tax part to make you feel all gooey inside…or maybe I should just buy my membership to the Libertarian Party.

[quote]oboffill wrote:
Capitalism is exactly that, people capitalizing.[/quote]

You bet! it’s people capitolizing on the [u]freedom of opportunity[/u] to pursue piles of cash. Leftists always make the mistake of arguing from a zero sum economic standpoint. Not true.

Again, more liberal bullshit lies. Nobody is holding anyone down. Wanna get rich? educate yourself, light a fire under your ass, and can the bullshit excuses. The nature of the beast is that individuals will always respond differently to adversity.

This kind of whiny poor me victim mentality really pisses me off.

My little scenario ending with paying taxes is not meant as an endorsement for our current tax system which is oppressive and discourages business. However, it is still better to increase the tax base than to hike taxes for all of those currently paying.

I’m for a flat tax just to be clear.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
It seems like everyone wins with capatalism. [/quote]

Everyone except the guy down the street who was selling candy from his drugstore for years before you came along and undercut him. Your gain is his loss, and when Walmart comes along and opens a super store just outside of town, you will lose as well.

You capitalized on the pharmacist’s inability to grow and maintain his market share, and Walmart capitalized on your inability to buy candy from China by the container ship load.

It’s a pretty rare case where someone winning doesn’t also entail someone, somewhere, losing.

I’m sorry that I haven’t outlined my position more thoroughly.

The reason why I am so against capitalism is not because I am grieving over not being filthy rich.

What I don’t like about capitalism is that the focus is on wealth itself. In my crazy head, I dream of a society which values REAL things which impact society. I would like to see a society which measures it’s progress by amount of good done to humanity, not GDP.

I am against wastefulness. I value science, art, beauty, love, truth. Capitalism does not value these things.

My problem with our politics is we, as a people, are largely clueless when it comes to who we are voting for. So when election time comes we either vote for the incombant or don’t vote. I’d like to see short term limits to keep things changing up and I’d like to see more local debates. In our area the only way to catch any details is to listen to talk radio all the time and hope something is on. It would be nice to have some Television coverage or FM radio coverage.

I think the system is not completely bad, we just need to find a way to make it work better. I think it is going to start from the bottom and work it’s way up. Find a few local guys who represnt your belief and get them in office. From there they can start to get the word out about how they think things should be. Before long things will change for the better.

Furthermore, I have no real solution to the problems capitalism presents. Maybe one day I’ll figure it out.

As it is, capitalism is limiting us as a species. How long can we really keep playing this game of greed?

I’m not really sure how opening a CANDY store helps anybody.

:smiley:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
If I open a candy store I am helping everyone. I purchase candy from a manufacturer, or distributor. I rent, or buy a shop on the corner from a land owner. I hire three people who previous to this either did not have jobs or had lower paying jobs. Finally, I sell a quality product to the public to enjoy and I profit from it. I now pay more taxes to the government, thus increasing the tax base.

It seems like everyone wins with capatalism. [/quote]

Adapt and improvise. If you can’t compete on price, as with the case with Walmart, change your business to offer something Walmart can’t.

[quote]mark57 wrote:

Everyone except the guy down the street who was selling candy from his drugstore for years before you came along and undercut him. Your gain is his loss, and when Walmart comes along and opens a super store just outside of town, you will lose as well.

You capitalized on the pharmacist’s inability to grow and maintain his market share, and Walmart capitalized on your inability to buy candy from China by the container ship load.

It’s a pretty rare case where someone winning doesn’t also entail someone, somewhere, losing.

[/quote]

[quote]Todd S. wrote:
My problem with our politics is we, as a people, are largely clueless when it comes to who we are voting for. So when election time comes we either vote for the incombant or don’t vote. I’d like to see short term limits to keep things changing up and I’d like to see more local debates. In our area the only way to catch any details is to listen to talk radio all the time and hope something is on. It would be nice to have some Television coverage or FM radio coverage.

I think the system is not completely bad, we just need to find a way to make it work better. I think it is going to start from the bottom and work it’s way up. Find a few local guys who represnt your belief and get them in office. From there they can start to get the word out about how they think things should be. Before long things will change for the better. [/quote]

ToddS, that is exactly what I feel as well. I feel that we have a population of ignorant citizens (not necessarily their own fault) and nothing is going to change that.

Ask yourself this. Why would our elected officials be content in having dumb citizens? Have you heard any politician show any concern about this? What does this say about our country?

The only solution, as ToddS states, is to lobby for what you believe. But, once again, you don’t see DC really stressing that point because they would rather us be silent and dumb.

[quote]NNNNate! wrote:
Adapt and improvise. If you can’t compete on price, as with the case with Walmart, change your business to offer something Walmart can’t.
[/quote]

Obviously, you’ve never been to Walmart. They sell EVERYTHING a human being will ever need.

Walmart is a fitting example, by the way.

[quote]mark57 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It seems like everyone wins with capatalism.

Everyone except the guy down the street who was selling candy from his drugstore for years before you came along and undercut him. Your gain is his loss, and when Walmart comes along and opens a super store just outside of town, you will lose as well.[/quote]

Compete accordingly or die. That is a good thing as well! Perhaps the guy selling candy out of his drug store can be more creative or add an additional product line or two. Competition spurs creativity! It drives prices down for consumers as well. All positive!

[quote]You capitalized on the pharmacist’s inability to grow and maintain his market share, and Walmart capitalized on your inability to buy candy from China by the container ship load.

It’s a pretty rare case where someone winning doesn’t also entail someone, somewhere, losing.

[/quote]

When I say “everyone wins” I am talking about the majority of people and entities. Naturally if you cannot compete you lose. Sort of like politics, sports etc. However, in the process of competing many great innovations can take place. Also, many times because of competition the consumer is treated to a better deal when purchasing goods and services. I’m sure you are not suggesting some sort of government control over fair competition. The consumer loses with this scenario.

You seem to be down on Wal-Mart, but you are able to purchase a variety of products from them at a lower rate than prior to Wal-Mart. You are probably too young to remember the days when the corner store gouged the typical consumer. Do you think that was good for the community?

The entrepreneurial spirit that made the USA the greatest nation on the face of the earth demands an open market place. If someone cannot compete with Wal-Marts prices then they need to offer better service, or package their products in a unique way in order to make them more appealing.

There are also plenty of opportunities to sell a product, service or manufacture an item where you are not knocking heads with the largest retailer in the world. However, you have to be creative and forward thinking.

Whiners rarely make it happen!

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I wonder would it be better to have many parties so that 5 or 10 candidates run for President and someone with 23% (for example) of the vote wins.
[/quote]
Yes, that would be better. It wouldn’t always be a choice of “lesser of the two evils.” which is good.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
No indeed, I can’t imagine that Jesus cared all that much about politics. I have a feeling he would not be for capital punishment which is a big republican issue. On the other hand I would bet that he is not all that fond of the democrats abortion stance.
[/quote]

Zeb do you read the Bible ever? God is for Capital Punishment, If they lay in wait to kill - send them to me he says. Same goes for rape. Let God be judge. Jesus wouldn’t disgree with himself or his father however you want to look at it.

PS - I have nothing against you, in fact I thank you for helping me train for pull ups :smiley: