T Nation

My TRT Journey Starts Now


Yup very odd, but a life saver for most. it would suck if we could not get T so easily. there was a time where you couldnt get it even if your labs sucked. docs were just scared. Im glad we live in a country where theres more freedom. most are fine with these clinics. only a few have issues. othewrise they would of been out of business a long time ago. especially if they were causing tons of harm.


I will admit that I would resort to the online T mills if left with no other option.


Yup / I didn’t want to go sit in a doctors office hoping I’ll get the T. I wanted to be sure that whoever I saw would look at my symptoms. That’s another bonus. They will give a script much more easily than some ding dong who is scared of t.


What are those states?


good shit! same here mate. you have better luck since you live in New York. you have more options. the best option i have found around here is shots once every two weeks with just letting me know i will be infertile and i need to freeze sperm. im going to see that forum you mention to see if i can find good sources and docs


thanks mate. yes my biggest concern is finding the right doctor. every doctor i have went to say my stuff is complicated (which i believe it is) and in the end just give up and offer trt leaving behind my low t3 igf1 dhea s and other stuff behind that im wanting to know why so low. im only searching for a doc since i have an adenoma. if i didnt i woulda donde trt with a reputable clinic. mostly because i don’t think anti aging clinics could take care of adenomas imo. but this is only my opinion. maybe i end up with them. i hear i need physical exams and all that so i read a bit about them.


do you self treat?


What is adomena or whatever you have?

Looked it up. Wow that sounds serious bro. Can’t you have it removed or somehow attack it and kill it? What’s it doing to you? Is it killing your production and that’s why you need trt? Won’t trt work with that issue since it’s not going throughout the normal production and instead is being given to the body free of any other function?


Keep looking my friend. Eventually the stars will align. Just hang in there. You have to keep looking and i am sure one day you’ll find that doc who was meant to fix you all up.


Hi 306,
I’ve been a Defy patient for over 3 years an on TRT for over 4 years.
Here’s what a T only protocol will look like after 8 months.


My PCP told me I had developed Gyno and would need surgery to remove the breast tissue. I fired my TRT doctor and went with Defy.
In 6 weeks they raised my TT to 950 my E2 was 35 and my prolactin was 8 needless to say I followed their protocol to the letter.
IMO you first protocol was the right call for someone with high SHGB. I would not have changed a thing to the protocol Dr Calkins gave you. I think its the perfect spot to start.

This whole no AI group think thing is new around here. There has not been enough time for gyno to start setting in with these boys that stopped their AI with doses of 150 or higher per week. Give it a year and we’ll have man boob everywhere and peeps will learn the proper way to take anastrozole. FYI Gyno surgery is 2000bucks per nipple.


hey na its just a tumor hanging around in my pituitary. neurosurgeon told me it was just floating around there doing nothing (obviously i didn’t expect he knowing a lot from hormones so i just said meh.) he told me my hormones are not because of the adenoma and it’s because of something else.

yeah mate I’ve been feeling like shit for almost 3 years and still keep looking! :slight_smile: imagen that i even went to a gastro just to find out why i have high shbg! i went that far lol mayo clinics is the next big thing lolll


what was your protocol first year? did you operate the gyno? why did you let it develop?


120mg/wk mono
yes I sued the first doc to pay for the surgery.
Why did I let it develop? Because I was a total newbie I did not know shit about TRT sides. I trusted the doc to know what was happening. After that I got smart.

My current Defy protocol is 150/wk 800iu HCG, .125mg M/T anastrozole. My TT is 950 Free T 33 E2 is 35 SHGB 29


is it possible to reduce the gyno to a point that does not need surgery? like what if you reduce estrogen?


NO Gyno means you have grown mammary glands that make breast milk. It has to be cut out. Surgery is the only way. If someone told you otherwise they did not have real gyno.


Thanks for jumping in, but it was actually you that started my thinking to dial things down out of the gate when you suggested starting at 100mg/week to minimize how terrible the first months will be, no?


No, I do not.


Perhaps you are genetically predisposed which happens in about 1 in 500 men according to the New England Journal of Medicine.

“Gynecomastia was reported to cause an imbalance between estrogen and androgen action or an increased estrogen to androgen ratio, due to increased estrogen production, decreased androgen production or both. Androgens include testosterone and DHT. High estradiol in the presence of low testosterone and DHT, growth hormone (IGF-1 is a metabolite), and a genetic predisposition to gynecomastia can increase the size of breast tissue in men.”

Im sorry that you had to suffer through surgery for this situation, along with the legal stuff, but the “group think” that is going on here is based on science that is finally coming to light. If there is data that says high estrogen regardless of testosterone levels causes gynecomastia I have not read it. If you have any please share.

Did you have problems with gyro as a boy/teen? I would say that your E2 reading, considering your 632 T reading throws your ratio way off. Most of the time an E2 reading in the 60s comes along with a T reading well above 1000 so closer to double what you had.


Ok, not to be selfish…but trying to bring this back to my case as I’m about to start and speaking to Defy again tomorrow. @charlie12 @bmbrady77 @NH_Watts @highpull @systemlord @enackers @hrdlvn thanks so much for all of the opinions and insight. Spent all weekend researching and educating myself. Still sticking to my planned pushback tomorrow with SOME flexibility to hear them out. From where they suggested I start in my original post to:

  • 60mg TC twice weekly (open to higher if they think I need it due to my above range SHBG)
  • NO HCG to start. Don’t want any more kids, don’t care about 1/3 shrinkage (open to adding it down the line once everything else is dialed in)
  • NO AI to start (at very most - stay where I am on current cloud monotherapy with Anastrozole at 0.1mg once per week - not open to doubling that dose)
  • NO DHEA to start

Again, keeping it simple and then adding where/if needed down the line. Thoughts?


Sounds like a solid plan brother.

This is an otc supplement so I wouldn’t make this a point of argument. If you don’t want to take it then don’t. If they are suggesting DHEA for you, just know that they have no monetary incentive to do so, because you go and buy that on your own, so the dr must think it will help optimize you. Again, whether or not it’s something you want to try is up to you.