T Nation

My Testosterone Results

Hey guys,
Thanks to everyone for the advice a few weeks ago. My results were what I was expecting based on what I read and the info. received from each of you. My symptoms were fatigue, lack of sex drive, and a long-standing case of gyno despite not-so-high body-fat levels. My results were:
Free = 8.6 ng/dl
Total = 277 ng/dl
TSH = 1.47 mU/L

I have to get back in to the MD for HRT. Hopefully, I can get an appointment this am. I know its been asked 1000x before, but how long until you felt less tired (falling asleep within 20 minutes after dinner) and regained your sex drive. Thanks for the help…I appreciate any response.

Mike

Sex drive is one of the first things to come back. Pretty quickly. . .of course everyone is different. For me first couple weeks.

Tiredness seems to take longer – seems like most folks report a couple or three months. Personally I am not there yet.

Just a heads-up, you may be in for a long haul to get the treatment right. The protocol is more or less

Try 5mg of the gel/or other transdermal daily. If that doesn’t work:

Try 10mg of the gel/or other transdermal daily. If that doesn’t work:

Try something else. If that doesn’t work:

Go to the injections.

Some people respond really well to the first treatment. Others don’t.

I started in July w this process and just started on the injections recently – I would say be positive but be prepared for it to take a while before you find the treatment that is right for you.

And it is possible/likely that as you go down this path, you will feel worse than you do now as you find the right treatment. I started w gel. My levels got lower after 4 weeks. I switched to striant. My levels got lower still.

And then, once you do find the right treatment for you, be prepared for it to take a little while for the testosterone to undo the damage.


NOTE: I am really oversimplifying, and since I am a newbie HRT’r I know others with more experience will step in and correct anything I’ve mistated.

A noticeable difference with 5 days using Androgel. Stabilization within 30 days.

IM would obviously show up quicker.

Thanks guys,
I see the MD next week to begin HRT. Lookin forward to feeling better!!!

Mike

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I am on HRT and I felt the sex drive kick in at 2-3 weeks. I also felt my body adjusting to the test and HGH. Energy levels have been very good and the pumps at the gym have been excellent. You will hold some water, I gained about 10 lbs after the second week, some muscle but mostly water. Good luck

Are any or all of you guys on an anti-estrogen as well? Thanks.

Mike

[quote]mikandrea wrote:
Are any or all of you guys on an anti-estrogen as well? Thanks.

Mike[/quote]

E levels can be out of balance and cause problems without being out of normal range. So no gyno, good anabolic results, good androgenic results like more and new hair. But libido can be off and you might not feel right/balanced.

Many docs do not understand these issues and they do not ask how you are doing. They treat your blood work, not you.

Many are not on anti-E and I guess that most should be. This is from another post. (Lack of morning wood is often caused by estrogen competing for T receptors.)

"Libido: This is my understanding. You start to inject or whatever. You react to the increased T levels as well as the transient increases. You get horny. Meanwhile the body does not get off on the transient level effects any more. And E levels start to accumulate as T aromatizes to E. The E also kills libido. The liver sees the higher E levels and increased SHBG. I expect that the liver also increases SHBG from T levels. The increased SHBG reduces free T levels below what you felt during your early horny phase. So T and FT increase, transient increase effects fade, E increases, SHBG increases and FT decreases. E competes for T receptors and that also blunts libido.

Anti-estrogen: I was getting lots of persistent nocturnal wood. Often to the point of discomfort (still do). But morning wood had become non-existent. I told the doc * what was going on and stated that we should be working to get morning wood as an indicator that the treatment was working right and expressed my opinion that E was the problem. He put me on Arimidex and I obtained liquid anastrozole to fill the script as the costs for Arimidex were too much without health insurance. It is working quite well, morning wood is back and all other libido aspects are improved. Still not where I was in June feeling like I could line up the ladies and to them all."

  • also told the doc that he was not seeing me how I was and that I was excited, energized and hopeful when I saw him and explained that I had been having a lack of energy and a drained feeling. As my T levels were around 1000, I asked if the E levels could be interfering.

Couple questions…

What is the procedure for having this done? i.e. the mechanics

Does insurance normally cover this?

If no insurance, what is the cost estimate of this test?

Thanks!

[quote]:David41 wrote:
Couple questions…

What is the procedure for having this done? i.e. the mechanics

Does insurance normally cover this?

If no insurance, what is the cost estimate of this test?

Thanks![/quote]

There are many issues here and I do not know to what you are referring. Are you asking about TRT in general? As for costs, some insurance plans pay, many do not, many do not have perscription plans and many plans will not pay for hormone testing. Some will not pay for injectables which is silly as injectable test is very inexpensive and gels and patches can cost as much as $300/month. I pay for all out of pocket.

To get doctor prescribed T you need to show low T on blood work tests. If you are low, you should be:

-wanting to fall asleep after eating
-gaining fat notably around the belly
-loosing muscle mass and feeling weak
-trouble sleeping
-feeling tired and unmotivated
-maybe depressed
-find little things frustrating
-sex drive or ED issues
-thin papery skin, dry flaky perhaps
-brittle nails
-making more typo’s
-passivity
-brain fog… not really in focus
-high cholesterol
-accident prone, breaking things in the kitchen etc
-insulin resistance and higher blood sugars

Low T comes for some in their 20’s but for most T fades slowly and will have low T typically in the late 50’s.

For those who inject, the blood work and doctor consults are the most expensive part. The challenge once you get motivated to go in this direction is finding a doctor who know this stuff. Many do not and many will not or don’t care. Many will be be doing this in a HMO or PPO plan as they will get black listed for driving up plan costs.

Search for TRT, RHT on this site and you have a few days of reading to do.

OK, 10 days in on AndroGel 5g/day. Still falling asleep after dinner (man, the wife gets mad!!!). Go for my follow-up blood work on Tuesday. I think I’m gonna ask the doc to test my estrogen levels as well. Is this how most of you felt after 10 days (feel great AND horny about 1 hour after the gel, then it decreases significantly). Morning wood only 3x out of the last 10 days. Thanks for the help.

Mike

I am taking arimidex 3x’s week. I am thinking about changing to ED. Any opinions?

Getting E too low will reduce libido. Most on TRT will take 1mg/week of arimidex; and you are already on 3mg/week and want to go to 7? This sounds unwise, all the more without knowing your current levels.

[quote]mikandrea wrote:
OK, 10 days in on AndroGel 5g/day. Still falling asleep after dinner (man, the wife gets mad!!!). Go for my follow-up blood work on Tuesday. I think I’m gonna ask the doc to test my estrogen levels as well. Is this how most of you felt after 10 days (feel great AND horny about 1 hour after the gel, then it decreases significantly). Morning wood only 3x out of the last 10 days. Thanks for the help.

Mike
[/quote]

10 days is not long enough for the body to respond. Physical changes need to occur in the cells, tissues and mental patterns have to shift. And I don’t think that you will find anyone here who would support the idea that 5mg/day is effective. If that does get absorbed, that is 1/2 the test production of a normal younger male.

It would be better to be less impatient for a while and let things take their course. Keep notes about whats happening, and how you feel. Write down what your objective are. Next doctor’s visit, have this in hand, one copy for the doc and one for you, and make notes on it while you discuss things.

Many here are going to urge you to go with injections, and 100mg/wk would be a typical start. After the body strips off the ester groups from the test cyp or test eth, that yields around 70mg of bio-identical test or 10mg/day.

What you feel in the first 6 weeks of effective TRT is transient. A steady state occurs after about 8 weeks and adjustment would be made at that point for E or whatever. But for androgel, I can see the point of early tests simply to see if the blood levels are getting anywhere near “therapeutic levels”.

Give it 2 more weeks. Some respond slower than others.

[quote]KSman wrote:
mikandrea wrote:
Are any or all of you guys on an anti-estrogen as well? Thanks.

Mike

E levels can be out of balance and cause problems without being out of normal range. So no gyno, good anabolic results, good androgenic results like more and new hair. But libido can be off and you might not feel right/balanced.

Many docs do not understand these issues and they do not ask how you are doing. They treat your blood work, not you.

Many are not on anti-E and I guess that most should be. This is from another post. (Lack of morning wood is often caused by estrogen competing for T receptors.)

"Libido: This is my understanding. You start to inject or whatever. You react to the increased T levels as well as the transient increases. You get horny. Meanwhile the body does not get off on the transient level effects any more. And E levels start to accumulate as T aromatizes to E. The E also kills libido. The liver sees the higher E levels and increased SHBG. I expect that the liver also increases SHBG from T levels. The increased SHBG reduces free T levels below what you felt during your early horny phase. So T and FT increase, transient increase effects fade, E increases, SHBG increases and FT decreases. E competes for T receptors and that also blunts libido.

Anti-estrogen: I was getting lots of persistent nocturnal wood. Often to the point of discomfort (still do). But morning wood had become non-existent. I told the doc * what was going on and stated that we should be working to get morning wood as an indicator that the treatment was working right and expressed my opinion that E was the problem. He put me on Arimidex and I obtained liquid anastrozole to fill the script as the costs for Arimidex were too much without health insurance. It is working quite well, morning wood is back and all other libido aspects are improved. Still not where I was in June feeling like I could line up the ladies and to them all."

  • also told the doc that he was not seeing me how I was and that I was excited, energized and hopeful when I saw him and explained that I had been having a lack of energy and a drained feeling. As my T levels were around 1000, I asked if the E levels could be interfering. [/quote]

How are you dosing the anastrozole? I’m currently injecting 200 mg/week test cyp. (keeps my total T levels in the 550-600 range)and I suspect my E levels are high. Thanks in advance for your help.

[quote]bobbyt wrote:

How are you dosing the anastrozole? I’m currently injecting 200 mg/week test cyp. (keeps my total T levels in the 550-600 range)and I suspect my E levels are high. Thanks in advance for your help.[/quote]

I am doing Test cyp and HCG injections EOD. On those days I take 8 drops of anastrozole except when the day falls on a weekend day, I take 10 drops. That is 30 drops per week which is 1ml or 1mg per week. You need to count the drops per .5 ml and do the numbers based on that. Some liquid forms may not come in 1mg/ml strength.

1mg/week is the standard dose for TRT, partly because when purchased as a drug it comes in 1mg tablets. Dose can then be changed based on blood work.

Thanks for the help guys. I appreciate all of you sharing your knowledge.

Mike

[quote]KSman wrote:
bobbyt wrote:

How are you dosing the anastrozole? I’m currently injecting 200 mg/week test cyp. (keeps my total T levels in the 550-600 range)and I suspect my E levels are high. Thanks in advance for your help.

I am doing Test cyp and HCG injections EOD. On those days I take 8 drops of anastrozole except when the day falls on a weekend day, I take 10 drops. That is 30 drops per week which is 1ml or 1mg per week. You need to count the drops per .5 ml and do the numbers based on that. Some liquid forms may not come in 1mg/ml strength.

1mg/week is the standard dose for TRT, partly because when purchased as a drug it comes in 1mg tablets. Dose can then be changed based on blood work.[/quote]

Five days at 8 drops and two days at 10 drops would be 60 drops/week. Am I correct or am I missing something? Thanks in advance.

[quote]bobbyt wrote:
KSman wrote:
bobbyt wrote:

How are you dosing the anastrozole? I’m currently injecting 200 mg/week test cyp. (keeps my total T levels in the 550-600 range)and I suspect my E levels are high. Thanks in advance for your help.

I am doing Test cyp and HCG injections EOD. On those days I take 8 drops of anastrozole except when the day falls on a weekend day, I take 10 drops. That is 30 drops per week which is 1ml or 1mg per week. You need to count the drops per .5 ml and do the numbers based on that. Some liquid forms may not come in 1mg/ml strength.

1mg/week is the standard dose for TRT, partly because when purchased as a drug it comes in 1mg tablets. Dose can then be changed based on blood work.

Five days at 8 drops and two days at 10 drops would be 60 drops/week. Am I correct or am I missing something? Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Yes, you missed the EOD (every other day) indicator. Many take .5mg two times a week. Whatever makes a sensible schedule for you.