My Struggle, My Goals, and My Progress on TRT

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
21

This really belongs in your thread. I do not want to hijack the OP’s thread.

But this needs to be talked about:

Your T is low, your E2 is relatively high, as the E2:fT ratio is adverse, you are estrogen dominant. We can discuss why etc in your thread.

So it is no surprise that you libido is tanked. Note that ED pills do not create libido, the ED pills improve the response of the plumbing when there is some arousal. Arousal is all in the brain. If your brain cannot get aroused, then the ED pill cannot do anything. We know this is your situation as your brain is able to be aroused in the AM.

Why the AM, we can only guess, but perhaps your cortisol is low, but still at its peak in the AM. So you get some action. Then when cortisol is lower later on at night your mental function is not up to the task.

I think most here would expect that you would have a strong libido if TRT was done right. And some would suggest an [8] AM cortisol test, better yet a four sample saliva test that would show the AM-PM cortisol profile.

There can be other compounding factors such as thyroid issues that would be expected to make matters worse. We have touched on three already.

Link this back to your own thread.

22

For those who would like to follow xsunnyx’s progress, his thread continues here:

23

It will be interesting to see what your next E2 lab shows. I had my E2 driven down to the same as yours (<6) and like you my libido was pretty good, certainly night and day better than it was with my E2 at 46. My test is currently in the low 900’s with free test a bit over range. When my E2 was at 46 my test was at 1499 with free test well over the range, and the E2 was just killing my libido and energy and causing bad acne on my back and shoulders. I’m dropping my arimidex back to 1mg a week and I’ll have to see how it turns out. I know there was a week or so prior to my low E2 test where my libido and energy and sense of well being we’re tremendous so I’m looking to find that balance. Maybe you and I are going to feel better with lower E2 than most because after hearing the horror stories of how terrible low E2 feels I can definitely say I feel way better with low E2 than high E2.

24

Glad to hear it, Ptownmike. I’ll keep you posted.

25

Very little to report right now.
Spending a lot of time just being a dad.
I’m working out, anxious to see some body fat results - I’m going to try to get tested on Saturday.

I feel completely normal, which ultimately was the goal, from a therapeutic point of view.
There’s also the matter of my muscle mass, which is a work in progress.

Nate

26

Nate - did you notice a difference in how you feel when starting the DHEA and Pregnenolone?
Whats your dose of DHEA and when do you take it?
Thanks

PS how the baby?

27

Oral DHEA or pregnenolone have low bio-availabity as they are hydrophobic. If taken with a meal that has fats, that improves absorption. Combine with your fish oil. Better to not take with a high fiber meal, oat meal, cheerios etc. DHEA is metabolized to its active metabolite DHEA sulfate [DHEA-S]; which has a long half life, making timing less of an concern from a serum level point of view.

28

I take a DHEA PREGNENOLONE supplement from Primordial Performace called Andro Drive.
Its the 2 supps in a proprietary oil triglyceride carrier they call Liqua Vade, supposed to slow absorption
down and deliver a much higher content. I have to admit that I feel a little happier and up
half way through the day when I take it.
I take one pill two times per week, the company says you can take up to 6 per day, but that
is another story.

29

Great product concept!

30

And the baby is GREAT.

31

Yesterday marked 2 months on Testosterone. Time for an update!

I’d like to answer Joey’s questions about Preg/DHEA, share some encouraging news, and talk about balls.

Joey- I can not honestly tell you that I feel any difference before/after starting on Pregnenolone and DHEA.
My dosage is 50mg of Preg and 35mg of DHEA, combined in one capsule.
I take it because my doctor found a deficiency, and prescribed it.
It’s covered by my insurance, so… why not?
My doctor also told me to take Vitamin D to correct a Vitamin D deficiency.
I take it- I can’t say it makes me feel any different.
Preg/DHEA is like that for me.

EDIT: DHEA makes me feel horrible, I realized later. More details in later posts.

Now some great news- I had another body fat test.

I weighed in at 148.0 lbs, with a lean mass of 119 lbs.
Body fat percentage is 19.6%.

This means I have lost a pound of fat, and gained 4 lbs of muscle since my last test.
This is great, because gaining muscle has been nearly impossible for me.

I can see the added mass in my shoulders and arms.
Family and co-workers have noticed as well.

Now… balls.
I’m definitely paranoid about testicular atrophy.
Nearly every day I’m checking them.
They don’t look smaller, but they definitely feel smaller.
I’m sure my nuts used to feel heavier, fuller.
Now they feel light, and a little soft.
They used to be sensitive. I could accidentally sit on a nut and ruin my whole day.
Now touching one is like touching my arm. I can poke at it, and… nothing.
Who can tell me what’s going on with our balls on TRT?

Nate

ps The baby is wonderfull. Such a joy. I don’t even care about the missed sleep.
Every time I get up to warm a bottle at 4am, I drink a protein shake in the kitchen.
Dad gets his bottle, too.

32

Atrophy. And you’re already experiencing it after two months. One day, you’re going to check them and they will feel like small lumps of bread dough, then they will begin to ache, and THEN when you have an orgasm, one (or both) of them will feel like they are trying to retract up into your body.

You’re already taking hCG. 250 iu EOD should fix that right up. Mine aren’t the glorious pre-TRT form, but they aren’t soft and they don’t ache.

33

[quote]KSman wrote:
With low E2 one feels terrible and depressed, libido gone etc. So your labs and how you feel create a conflict, so perhaps the labs were in error. [/quote]

Not denying this could be a lab error but I’d like to comment on low E2. First my results are contrary to the VAST majority of accounts I’ve read and the purpose of this isn’t to say my experience can be generalized to all men on TRT - just an alternative opinion for guys like myself.

I have been playing with E2 over the past 3 months while keeping test dose consistent and my peak is consistently around 800. I’ve had periods of time where my E2 was undetectable, periods where is was 10pg/mL, 20pg/mL and now 30pg/mL. Hands down I feel best with an E2 that undetectable to 10 - Mood is great, libido is not crazy high but it’s there and my erections of that of a 17 year old. When I get to 20 my erections aren’t as hard and my libido is very low. By 30 my erections are 70% normal, libido is zero and I’m depressed.

I think prolonged periods of undetectable E2 aren’t good physiologically even if you feel good mentally and so I’ve now gone back to trying to keep my E2 between 10-15pg/mL and bam…I feel really great.

Just another opinion…

34

Hey guys,

Thanks for continuing to follow me on this journey.

After a particularly difficult Thanksgiving holiday weekend, I have doubts about whether I’m on the right path.

Two or three family members approached me and told me I was behaving erratically, being rude and irritable.
They all suggested that I “get some help”, which is hard to hear.
My wife keeps telling me I’m “talking crazy” and that’s just frightening.

I have been feeling a little jittery, and to be honest, irritable, and annoyed by other people.
Libido is dropping, and erections are seldom.

I’m going back in to talk to my doctor about this - and the testicular atrophy, and what we can do about it.

I went in for a new blood test today (Testosterone, Estradiol) and I’ll have results next week.

If you’ve ever seen “lowtguy” on YouTube, it’s a guy in Canada who is on hormone replacement with basically just HCG and Arimidex - no Test Cyp. I plan to ask my doctor if she thinks a treatment like that would work for me.

We’ll know more when we look at my levels.
My T went up so dramatically in the first month - if it continued to increase, it would be abnormally high.
I’m also interested, as a few of you have mentioned, in the new Estradiol levels and how they compare to my previous low measurement.

The way people close to me are now reacting to me, along with my smaller, softer testicles, is making me feel like this is not worth it. Maybe I could continue to see improvements to my physique without Testosterone supplementation, now that I’ve got the ball rolling.

I’ll keep you posted.

Nate

35

Hey Nate, until you get your labs back do not make changes or any hasty decisions.
I am just off a period where I drove my E2 into the ground on purpose with Letrozole for a bb sized
spec of gyno. I didn’t get blood done as I knew I would be at an undetectable level.
I can tell you, I had zero sex drive, was pissed off, irritable and no fun to be around. Basically,
severely low E2 is just as bad as really high E2, and I have noted that your E2 seemed too low throughout
your journey. As I finished the Letro and let my E2 rise I am back to my sanguine trt super self.
TRT is a road of trial and error, it takes some time to fine tune, give it a chance and consult your doc before you jump ship.

36

Perhaps your E2 is way too low. Also you mention you use HCG twice a week? What dose?
Should go for 250IU EOD. Eventually you could try to switch to aromasin, arimidex causes this in some people, but first things first.

Hang in there man.

37

Males are a minor adjustment to the female blueprint. The brain needs estrogen, and the right amount. For males the range can be quite narrow. We have seen how estrogen fluctuation can affect women’s behaviour.

We have seen guys have terrible experiences when they are anastrozole over-responders. How this dysfunction is expressed is variable. Are you seen as bitchy?

Some inputs to the brain can see good at first, but are not sustainable as adverse patterns develop.

38

Hang in Nate.
Like PK said, it is trial and error. - It takes a while! -I’m at 15months in and feel like I’m just barely starting to figure it out.

To me it sounds like those things could be E2 related. - When mine is too high or low I turn into a menopausal woman and am really whiney.

One thing that is helping me is keeping a health log. Once or twice a week I write down how I’ve been feeling, any changes to feeling of well being, and if I’ve changed anything with my protocol. This has helped me identify when I feel the best and what to avoid.

Good luck man.

PS - I like your comment: “Dad gets his bottle too.”

39

Tunapancake and Kaynon311:
Thanks for asking about my HCG dosage. I figured it out.
It’s 220IU, twice a week. I’ve been taking on Mondays and Thursdays.

40

Okay, so I have been to my doctor and we changed a few things.

I’m going to give you some numbers - I am still waiting for the actual lab report.

My testosterone is NOT too high. It was 1211 ng/dL last time we tested. This time, it was 765 - totally fine.

My Estradiol again came back as <6.0 pg/mL so, that’s either 2 lab errors or I have seriously low E2.
My doctor took me off of the Anastrozole completely.
I still have a bottle of 0.25mg pills - do you think I should take one a week, or just not take any?

It’s been a week and already I’m having better mood and the re-appearance of my “new” libido.

I’m now going to be taking the 220IU of HCG 3 times a week - we’re going to stop that testicular atrophy nice and early.
My doctor said my testicles look normal.
I simply told her, they’re my nuts. I know them. They’re not right. I want my nuts back.

My DHEA tested “high” - again, I’m waiting for the actual report.
My doc took me from 35 mg/day down to 15 mg/day.
I’m waiting for those new pills to arrive, so I actually haven’t taken any all week.

The most incredible thing going on with me is the muscle.
It’s happening. Broader shoulders, bigger pecs, smaller waist.
Co-workers are making comments.
I can’t believe it sometimes when I see myself in the mirror.
And finally my wife noticed. I took off my shirt and she was like “Honey, what the fuck?”

I know now that I have to post pictures. I want to wait, because I know this is going to get better.

Anyway, I also have a little acne, nothing crazy at all. Like 2 or 3 zits.

That’s it. I’ll give you more when I have more.

Also - does anyone recommend or recommend against having my sperm count tested?
We will want to try for another kid in a few years.
The one we have is awesome, by the way.